New look Labour

I’m not a Labour voter anymore but I can’t see what’s wrong with the use of the flag, promoting veterans and straightening your tie at the cenotaph. What’s the issue here? Does anyone object to Sturgeon having the saltire pinned to her every time we clap eyes on her or Varadkar and his mates standing by the Tricolour? No they don’t and nor should they.

It's not that there's anything wrong with those things in and of themselves. It's what it reveals (or reaffirms) about this incarnation of the party. No ideas, no beliefs.

Standing next to a saltire after decades campaigning for an independent Scotland just backs up that that's what Sturgeon's all about.

Standing next to a union flag because a consultants told him northerners will like it makes Starmer look like an elitist phoney.
 
It's not even something that will actually work with voters. Boris always looks a shambles with his Ken Dodd haircut and he turned up at the cenotaph sh*tfaced weeks before the general election. Nobody cared. It's the sort of thing tory voters like either way in tory politicians (Cameron smart, Boris scruffy), but hate either way in Labour politicians (2015 Corbyn scruffy, 2019 Corbyn smart). This is the problem with Labour focusing all their energy on tory voters - they vote tory.
 
New Labour, old Labour, left Labour, right Labour, its all irrelevant when we have the current level of client journalism we have now.

Johnson tells lie after lie with impunity from media scrutiny and is credited with everything good and not responsible for anything bad.

Starmer gets blamed for the above.
 
It's not that there's anything wrong with those things in and of themselves. It's what it reveals (or reaffirms) about this incarnation of the party. No ideas, no beliefs.

Standing next to a saltire after decades campaigning for an independent Scotland just backs up that that's what Sturgeon's all about.

Standing next to a union flag because a consultants told him northerners will like it makes Starmer look like an elitist phoney.
Go on then give me a winning manifesto. We lost the last election on a left position, that after a corrupt government, an Eton leader, a decade of Austerity. The worst result since Newcastle won a trophy.
 
It's not even something that will actually work with voters. Boris always looks a shambles with his Ken Dodd haircut and he turned up at the cenotaph sh*tfaced weeks before the general election. Nobody cared. It's the sort of thing tory voters like either way in tory politicians (Cameron smart, Boris scruffy), but hate either way in Labour politicians (2015 Corbyn scruffy, 2019 Corbyn smart). This is the problem with Labour focusing all their energy on tory voters - they vote tory.

They are not focusing on Tory voters, they are focusing on Labour voters who over the last few elections have voted Tory.
 
It's not that there's anything wrong with those things in and of themselves. It's what it reveals (or reaffirms) about this incarnation of the party. No ideas, no beliefs.

Standing next to a saltire after decades campaigning for an independent Scotland just backs up that that's what Sturgeon's all about.

Standing next to a union flag because a consultants told him northerners will like it makes Starmer look like an elitist phoney.
Maybe standing next to the Union flag might be a half decent idea as he is the leader of the British Labour Party and he wants to be the next British Prime Minister.
Maybe the consultants have gone around the lost red wall seats and told him that a bit more patriotism might go down well with the very people he is trying to get back onside. Maybe they said that coming across as the polar opposite of Corbyn might be a good thing so stand up straight and polish your shoes Mr Starmer.
They won’t get power without reclaiming the red wall from the cretins that currently hold it and as we saw only to well at the debacle that was the last election the Corbyn look ain’t popular in more ways than one.
Or maybe you are right and he’s just an elitist phoney. He can’t win either way can he?
 
Go on then give me a winning manifesto. We lost the last election on a left position, that after a corrupt government, an Eton leader, a decade of Austerity. The worst result since Newcastle won a trophy.

Well if these things were somehow up to me I'd probably try and be a bit consistent in what I say so that the public do have an idea what I'm about. If a big event like the pandemic comes along I'd try and use that to demonstrate the value of the party's policies.

It's crackers that we're a year in to the pandemic, the tory government have failed massively, and nows the time Labour have chosen to drop policies that suddenly have so much relevance. In December 2019 people were asking what was the point in the nationalising broadband policy. Now businesses and children's schooling has all had to move online and the benefits have become obvious. But nothing. Because hey nothing's more important than not coming across as being in any way like Corbyn. 🤷‍♂️
 
Isn't it funny that you never hear about the importance of Labour leaders showing the voters they're nothing like Brown or Miliband. Even in the 2019 battering Corbyn's Labour polled more votes than either of those two managed. Yet they don't get the same radioactive treatment.
 
Isn't it funny that you never hear about the importance of Labour leaders showing the voters they're nothing like Brown or Miliband. Even in the 2019 battering Corbyn's Labour polled more votes than either of those two managed. Yet they don't get the same radioactive treatment.
He lost massively no matter how you spin it. I could not believe it but the club I go in is almost 100% Labour. I was the only bloke in our group who voted for them, I was laughed at. Don't blame The Mail I have never seen one in there. He was poison.
 
Isn't it funny that you never hear about the importance of Labour leaders showing the voters they're nothing like Brown or Miliband. Even in the 2019 battering Corbyn's Labour polled more votes than either of those two managed. Yet they don't get the same radioactive treatment.
You may well be right. The only trouble is the voters that Starmer needs back do not want anything resembling Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbot and Thornberry in high office. They would rather have coco the clown and friends and it was demonstrated at the last election when the Labour Party lost seats in places nobody thought possible. They either want power or they don’t and if the do they might just have to wear the cap that fits.
 
Maybe standing next to the Union flag might be a half decent idea as he is the leader of the British Labour Party and he wants to be the next British Prime Minister.

Agree, two good reason. But neither of them are "because a consultant told me too." 🤷‍♂️
 
You may well be right. The only trouble is the voters that Starmer needs back do not want anything resembling Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbot and Thornberry in high office. They would rather have coco the clown and friends and it was demonstrated at the last election when the Labour Party lost seats in places nobody thought possible. They either want power or they don’t and if the do they might just have to wear the cap that fits.
You put it far better than I did. I fully agree with every word.
 
Well if these things were somehow up to me I'd probably try and be a bit consistent in what I say so that the public do have an idea what I'm about. If a big event like the pandemic comes along I'd try and use that to demonstrate the value of the party's policies.

It's crackers that we're a year in to the pandemic, the tory government have failed massively, and nows the time Labour have chosen to drop policies that suddenly have so much relevance. In December 2019 people were asking what was the point in the nationalising broadband policy. Now businesses and children's schooling has all had to move online and the benefits have become obvious. But nothing. Because hey nothing's more important than not coming across as being in any way like Corbyn. 🤷‍♂️

It was a policy that was torn apart and derided, saying it now would not change that regardless of how good or relevant the policy is.

We are 4 years from an election, Labour's focus should be ensuring that the Tories get brought to account for the handling of the pandemic once its over.

I have no doubt running upto the next election Labour's focus will be on the NHS.
 
It was a policy that was torn apart and derided, saying it now would not change that regardless of how good or relevant the policy is.

So was Brexit! For years. Yet Farage kept banging the drum and making his case and eventually got what he wanted.
 
Not sure free broadband would gather the same momentum...

So choose a different policy. It shouldn't be this hard. Loads of the Labour policies polled well so long as they didn't have Corbyn's name next to them.

Farage took over a nothing party, got an elected office nobody ever cared about, took an issue that very few people cared about and even fewer agreed with him on and managed to push a constitutional change on the country.
 
The Tories do what 'consultants' tell them has traction with voters. They win.

I'm fed up of losing. Starmer is fed up of losing? Why aren't you?

I am. I don't agree that standing next to a flag and having no policies will mean Labour suddenly wins.

And in any case it's not a football team is it? I don't win by the Labour party having a majority in parliament if they're unwilling/unable to use that position to make any changes to the country that appeal to me.
 
I am. I don't agree that standing next to a flag and having no policies will mean Labour suddenly wins.

And in any case it's not a football team is it? I don't win by the Labour party having a majority in parliament if they're unwilling/unable to use that position to make any changes to the country that appeal to me.

That is only a good argument if

a) they aren't going to make changes that appeal to you

and

b) the Tory alternative isn't going to be worse


In my view, your argument fails on both counts, but it definitely fails on the second at least.
 
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