National Rail Strike

Uwefuchs

Well-known member
Yes all cleaners deserve a payrise, not what I was getting at. Plus its not the workers doing it, its the union. Plus even despite low paid cleaners working for network rail, the rail industry averages 40k plus, that may well be deserved but as an overall industry I wouldn't consider that to be a low wage at all, its a lot more than I earn. That number will be relative to where people live so for some it may be difficult. But I have to say, I don't look at a person earning 40k per year and think "well they need a pay rise urgently", I do with cleaners. Also I would add that these workers may well deserve their 40k, but people earning that are certainly not poor.

Should someone have to feel bad or apologise for earning 40k a year? To earn that amount they'll have a fair amount of knowledge and skill to carry out a particular role. You don't walk into a 40k a year job on your first day on the railway.

Also how far do you think 40k gets you nowadays? Take off tax, NI, pension, maybe student loans, you're hardly rich. Then takeaway money for your spiralling bills and you'll struggle to support a family on that wage. If you got a couple who are both earning 40k a year then you're probably quite comfortable but a person trying to bring up a family on 40k a year is going to struggle.

I'm sorry that you earn less than that but railworkers rolling over and taking a pay freeze which amounts to a cut isn't going to help your situation.

Like people have said on here this isn't a race to the bottom, if the Tories had their way we'd all be working 18 hours a day for about 10 grand a year.

Everyone should be getting a payrise not criticism for wanting to live a reasonably comfortable life. Don't fall for the Tory spin that's trying to turn working people against each other.
 

Warwickboro

Well-known member
Should someone have to feel bad or apologise for earning 40k a year? To earn that amount they'll have a fair amount of knowledge and skill to carry out a particular role. You don't walk into a 40k a year job on your first day on the railway.

Also how far do you think 40k gets you nowadays? Take off tax, NI, pension, maybe student loans, you're hardly rich. Then takeaway money for your spiralling bills and you'll struggle to support a family on that wage. If you got a couple who are both earning 40k a year then you're probably quite comfortable but a person trying to bring up a family on 40k a year is going to struggle.

I'm sorry that you earn less than that but railworkers rolling over and taking a pay freeze which amounts to a cut isn't going to help your situation.

Like people have said on here this isn't a race to the bottom, if the Tories had their way we'd all be working 18 hours a day for about 10 grand a year.

Everyone should be getting a payrise not criticism for wanting to live a reasonably comfortable life. Don't fall for the Tory spin that's trying to turn working people against each other.
No they shouldn't feel bad at all, you know I've said they probably deserve it, i justdont agree that they deserve blind support in the way that some of our other services do, its thwir right to protest this, I. Sure they deserve their salary, but blind sympathy is not sensible I this case imo
 

Warwickboro

Well-known member
Should someone have to feel bad or apologise for earning 40k a year? To earn that amount they'll have a fair amount of knowledge and skill to carry out a particular role. You don't walk into a 40k a year job on your first day on the railway.

Also how far do you think 40k gets you nowadays? Take off tax, NI, pension, maybe student loans, you're hardly rich. Then takeaway money for your spiralling bills and you'll struggle to support a family on that wage. If you got a couple who are both earning 40k a year then you're probably quite comfortable but a person trying to bring up a family on 40k a year is going to struggle.

I'm sorry that you earn less than that but railworkers rolling over and taking a pay freeze which amounts to a cut isn't going to help your situation.

Like people have said on here this isn't a race to the bottom, if the Tories had their way we'd all be working 18 hours a day for about 10 grand a year.

Everyone should be getting a payrise not criticism for wanting to live a reasonably comfortable life. Don't fall for the Tory spin that's trying to turn working people against each other.
Oh and sorry, how far does 40k get you, for me, if (and I mean if) you have 1 x 40k income plus 1 x additional income, and you live in Middlesbrough, it would actually provide a relatively nice life i would imagine, once again I'm not saying they don't deserve that, I'm happy for them but I'm not sure they should be garnering sympathy or abuse
 

r00fie1

Well-known member
🤣 we've all benefitted from the fuel reduction haven't we
You have obviously missed the point or chosen not to answer serious questions.

The many dont have companies registered in tax - havens or make obscene profits from oil and gas whilst pensioners, people on fixed incomes and many on low wages and zero-hours contracts cant afford to heat and eat.

Doff your cap and thank capital that we are still alive - like slaves without the chains.

The poor are poor because the rich are rich.
Solidarity✊
 

r00fie1

Well-known member
This strike is about power - about workers "taking back control" from the rich elite. Its about decent working conditions, proper contracts, dignity, receiving a decent living wage and having a say in how their industries and professions work.

We`ve had 40 years of slash and burn - both in conditions of employment, public housing, social care, privatisation of the NHS, forcing vulnerable onto the street, denying working people the right to a living wage and social security for the elderly, pensioners and disabled people.

This isnt just about cancelling the 07:35 to London Bridge - its a clarion call for all those - the many - to push back from the last 40 years, and particularly the last 12 years. History has a habit of repeating itself. The "few" always resort to divide and rule - the answer is to resist. They cannot allow the many to expose their bankrupt, iniquitous system.
 

Laughing

Well-known member
I am frankly astonished that anyone is mentioning the current pay of striking workers, its irrelevant. Much more relevant is the, real terms, 20% pay cut the entire public sector have had to endure over the last 10 years.

Why should they work for 20% less, indeed why should anyone?

The lack of understanding from some on this thread is a great demonstration that people are falling for the tory spin.

Instead of the workers taking the hit on wages, why don't the rail companies take the hit on profits. Whilst the tories talk about restraint on pay, not once have they mentioned restraint on profit.
 

Huddboro

Well-known member
I am frankly astonished that anyone is mentioning the current pay of striking workers, its irrelevant. Much more relevant is the, real terms, 20% pay cut the entire public sector have had to endure over the last 10 years.

Why should they work for 20% less, indeed why should anyone?

The lack of understanding from some on this thread is a great demonstration that people are falling for the tory spin.

Instead of the workers taking the hit on wages, why don't the rail companies take the hit on profits. Whilst the tories talk about restraint on pay, not once have they mentioned restraint on profit.
Mentioned it above and it's utterly criminal that they are getting away with it. Just because the Private sector lost a lot of benefits previously doesn't mean the public sector needs to bend over to do the same. Minimum of 1% above inflation should be the pay increase yearly- I mean did you hear Sunak's excuse for pensioners payrise? That it doesn't hurt inflation but giving money to Teachers for Nurses for example will do, when pointed out by Peston that it was ridiculous, Jenrick blustered some rubbish completely different to what Sunak actually said.
 

Corcaigh_the_Cat

Well-known member
I have a love hate relationship with unions, they have bought us so much as mentioned. Holiday, employment rights etc. But the teaching unions (my wife is a teacher btw) are asking for 12%! I think that's a tad ott. I also think the unions have recognised that we have a weak incompetent government in a very weak position and they are exploiting that just as much as Boris is exploiting us! The issue is if millions of workers in the public sector all get 10% plus, inflation goes up further still and private sector workers get screwed, so something in the middle may be more appropriate, in general I'm on the workers side, but I just hope they keep within reality, however I acknowledge this will also be a negotiating position on their part.
They're wanting to maintain their standard of living, you think they should be worse off?
 

Corcaigh_the_Cat

Well-known member
Well I think (could be wrong) that this is the starting position in negotiations, if they settle at 5 then i think that is fair, at present it just comes across a tad like a hostage situation, rather than going for whats fair. All relativel I do understand, I guess after working in the private sector my entire life, where pay increases only happen with promotion mostly, occasionally you may get the odd 1%, i have become cynical.
I worked in the private sector too and I'd say you're talking rubbish, otherwise those who started in a particular salary and didn't get promotion would be on that salary after 10 years employment. That has never happened in the companies where I've worked, wages have always risen but over the last 40 years they've fallen in real terms.

We can afford a society where people can work without being worse off year on year, we choose not to in order for the wealth to move upwards. It appears that you agree with that.
 

MolteniArcore

Well-known member
A point missed is that 'modernisation' includes cutting maintenance staff to save money.

Potters Bar crash - poor maintenance
Clapham crash - poor maintenance

The Government are proposing less pay for more hours and a cut of 1,800 staff. Will that make our railways safer? No. Will reducing the costs of running our railways result in cheaper fares? No. When was the last time rail fares went down? But I bet profits will go up.

The arguments given on this thread against the strikes are shocking - straight out of the Gov propaganda machine.

We are going to have a summer of discontent. There will be lots of strikes. Get behind the workers - they are striking for you and the rest of the working classes. They are also striking for the middle and upper classes as no one wants people to die in rail crashes.

Or we could listen to Boris Johnson. Reduce standards. More profit syphoned off to the richest people in society or sent abroad to the directors and shareholders of the foreign companies who run our trains. If that's what you are for you need to take a hard look in the mirror.
 

Warwickboro

Well-known member
This is complete nonsense.
Explain? As I say, I'm sure the workers are worth their salary, I just don't agree that they are poor (some will be), I disapprove of the action being taken despite understanding it is theor right, I appreciate the right to strike and for some industries I see the need, however on this occasion I don't believe it is correct. Once again, im Sure they are hard working people who deserve their pay, and who are trying to maintain their living standards, I just don't agree that they have being particularly hard done by when compared to the vast majority of the public sector. My cynicism is younger in cheek, my pay has gone up very little over the years but that is my issue to resolve and not something I am blaming anyone else for.
 

JM14

Well-known member
We are not French, honestly you can not give into strikes in my opinion, if you do everyone will be at it
Reminder that many of the benefits we take for granted in work we’re likely due to strike action

Everyone will be at what? Asking for more protection in the workplace and wages that keep up with inflation. How dare they
 

Warwickboro

Well-known member
Explain? As I say, I'm sure the workers are worth their salary, I just don't agree that they are poor (some will be), I disapprove of the action being taken despite understanding it is theor right, I appreciate the right to strike and for some industries I see the need, however on this occasion I don't believe it is correct. Once again, im Sure they are hard working people who deserve their pay, and who are trying to maintain their living standards, I just don't agree that they have being particularly hard done by when compared to the vast majority of the public sector. My cynicism is younger in cheek, my pay has gone up very little over the years but that is my issue to resolve and not something I am blaming anyone else for.
Edit tounge in cheek not young lol
 

FabioPorkpie

Well-known member

I was saying that it is nonsense to claim that pay increases in the private sector ‘only happen with promotion mostly’ and ‘occasionally you may get the odd 1%’.

I worked in the private sector for 22 years before moving to the public sector.
I received annual pay rises every single year in the private sector, apart from 1.
These pay rises were received irrespective of role/promotion.
Maybe I was just incredibly lucky, but I worked for a number of outfits and all gave pay rises.
I’m sure I can’t be the only person out there in the private sector who received frequent pay rises, almost always greater than 1%?
 

Warwickboro

Well-known member
I was saying that it is nonsense to claim that pay increases in the private sector ‘only happen with promotion mostly’ and ‘occasionally you may get the odd 1%’.

I worked in the private sector for 22 years before moving to the public sector.
I received annual pay rises every single year in the private sector, apart from 1.
These pay rises were received irrespective of role/promotion.
Maybe I was just incredibly lucky, but I worked for a number of outfits and all gave pay rises.
I’m sure I can’t be the only person out there in the private sector who received frequent pay rises, almost always greater than 1%?
Well yes, I was being tounge in cheek, my pay rises have been pretty poor but thats my problem and won't be the broad experience, that is what the private sector is though. The point is you get what your given, and its on you, "me in this instance" to improve your own situation on the private sector, so "again tounge in cheek" i am a tad cynical of what is broadly speaking, a well paid job "compared to the wider public sector" and once again, not cleaners, claiming that 40k plus is not a good living, once again, im sure they earn that money and deserve it, and I also understand that they want to keep it that way by keeping pace with inflation. I do get the I.mpession that anyone who doesn't agree with the RMT is an "idiot" and talking nonsense on here though no matter what they say.
 
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