Missing goals and assists

FabioPorkpie

FabioPorkpie

Well-known member
Apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere, and I don’t want to be overly negative, but with the imminent departure of Chuba, we are obviously massively weaker as an attacking force. Added to the contribution from the loans, we have lost a whopping 44 league goals and 20 league assists from last season.

Chuba 28 goals 2 assists
Archer 11 goals. 6 assists
Ramsey 5 goals. 1 assist
Giles. Nil goals. 11 assists
Watmore😍 5 goals. 2 assist

total. 49 goals. 22 assists

I think Carrick is a top, top, up and coming coach, and I don’t want to ride the doom and gloom bandwagon, but boy oh boy have the coaching staff got their work cut out now. Recruitment team really need to pull a few rabbits out of hats and ideally bring in some proven quality to join the projects/gambles.

Getting Archer back (loan with view to buy?) would go some distance towards redressing the loss of goals and assists, but I can’t see us having much chance of seeing him turn out for us again, given there would surely be richer, bigger clubs interested were he really available at a price we could afford?
Jones rediscovering his form could also add good numbers, but we really need some of the new boys to come good right at the beginning, which must be putting a lot of pressure on them and may end up with them being judged unfairly over the next couple of months as they try to fill some big boots and settle in.

My confident prediction of 2nd place this season has completely evaporated over the last 3 or 4 weeks, sadly.

Still, I fancy a good win today. 4 nowt Boro with Forrs among the goals!
UTFB!

edited to add Watmore‘s contribution.
 
Last edited:
Got to hope that Latte Lath is the next Archer, and that Engel is the next Giles.

Then hope Rogers/Gilbert can measure up to Akpom, which is a big ask.

It's a lot of goals to lose.
 
These Archer and Ramseys posts are verging on an obsession. They didn't sign until January when we were already scoring and 4th in the league.

We're not getting them back, and as soon as fans start comparing our new striker to Archer... He's destined to fail before he even kicks a ball.

The goals and assists we need to replace are the ones we got at the START of last season - Watmore got 5, Muniz got 2, Forss got 3 while playing as a striker.
We probably need to replace Crook's 4 goals too as he won't be getting the minutes as a striker he got at the start of last season.

* goals above are before January ^
 
I suppose it's worth pointing out that a big reason those figures are so impressive is Carrick and the way he wants to try and play.

Whoever comes in (or even those who are already here) will have every opportunity to go some way towards matching those standards.

It's obviously a concern, it's not like you can just stick anyone into the system and expect the same results. But equally it's not like Chuba and Giles were single handedly creating and scoring goals out of nothing either.

They were able to do it because the likes of McGree, Forss, Howson and Hackney gave them the platform to do so. And those lads are still here.
 
Ash88 said:
These Archer and Ramseys posts are verging on an obsession. They didn't sign until January when we were already scoring and 4th in the league.

We're not getting them back, and as soon as fans start comparing our new striker to Archer... He's destined to fail before he even kicks a ball.

The goals and assists we need to replace are the ones we got at the START of last season - Watmore got 5, Muniz got 2, Forss got 3 while playing as a striker.
We probably need to replace Crook's 4 goals too as he won't be getting the minutes as a striker he got at the start of last season.

* goals above are before January ^
Click to expand...

The fact we had Crooks up front, Forss on the wing, sold Watmore, with Muniz sent to the mines says it all about what Carrick thought we had pre-January.

People aren't saying we need to replace Muniz because he did very little for us.

Akpom scored most of the goals that got us up to 4th before we signed Archer, and he's gone too.
 
FabioPorkpie said:
and ideally bring in some proven quality to join the projects/gambles.
Click to expand...
Proven quality is the hardest thing in football.

If there was a guarantee that whoever we bring in for the Chuba money would score 30 goals then I’d do the deal tomorrow. But for a guarantee of quality? You’re basically talking about Harry Kane.

That’s why I’d keep hold of Chuba at all costs. We know how he works in the team, the manager knows him backwards, there’s no settling in period. You can even pay top dollar for an Assombalonga or a Jordan Rhodes who on paper are a guarantee of goals, and it doesn’t work.
 
festa5 said:
I suppose it's worth pointing out that a big reason those figures are so impressive is Carrick and the way he wants to try and play.

Whoever comes in (or even those who are already here) will have every opportunity to go some way towards matching those standards.

It's obviously a concern, it's not like you can just stick anyone into the system and expect the same results. But equally it's not like Chuba and Giles were single handedly creating and scoring goals out of nothing either.

They were able to do it because the likes of McGree, Forss, Howson and Hackney gave them the platform to do so. And those lads are still here.
Click to expand...

That’s a fair point, and the four you’ve mentioned are just as important to us for different reasons, but it’s going to be a big ask for the new boys to replace anywhere near that level of missing goals and assists.
That said, we probably don’t need to. Less big wins, the 3-0s and 4-1s, but more 1-0s and 2-1s may still be enough to get us up there.
 
TeaCider said:
People aren't saying we need to replace Muniz because he did very little for us.
Click to expand...

Archer did nothing for us in the first 26 games of the season, and he didn't score his first goal until the 31st.

TeaCider said:
Akpom scored most of the goals that got us up to 4th before we signed Archer, and he's gone too.
Click to expand...

Did you make that up? - Akpom scored 31% of our goals before Archer - and 35% of our goals after Archer.

------

My point is, since Carrick - our goal ratio before Archer was 2.07 goals per game, after Archer it improved to 2.15 goals per game.

It's the goals we need to replace - not the player.
 
Ash88 said:
Archer did nothing for us in the first 26 games of the season, and he didn't score his first goal until the 31st.



Did you make that up? - Akpom scored 31% of our goals before Archer - and 35% of our goals after Archer.

------

My point is, since Carrick - our goal ratio before Archer was 2.07 goals per game, after Archer it improved to 2.15 goals per game.

It's the goals we need to replace - not the player.
Click to expand...

We were 21st when Carrick took over on the 17th game, I'm not including the period before then because it's clearly not a period that was successful or that we need to try and emulate.

We signed Archer on the 6th of January.

In those 11 games between Carrick's arrival and Archer's, we scored 21 goals and Akpom scored 9 and assisted 1 of them.
So 48% of the goals under Carrick till that point directly involved Akpom, which would be comfortably the most of any player.

Losing Akpom and Archer is taking a huge number of goals out of the side, and both will need adequately replacing.
 
The season before last we just missed out on playoffs on the last day of the season and we didn’t have these goals and assists then.

Instead of Ryan Giles we had Neil Taylor, instead of Akpom and Archer we had Sporar, Connolly, Balogun, Coburn.

We will go again this season without those names but I still face faith in Carrick’s way of playing that we’ll still score plenty of goals.
 
FabioPorkpie said:
Apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere, and I don’t want to be overly negative, but with the imminent departure of Chuba, we are obviously massively weaker as an attacking force. Added to the contribution from the loans, we have lost a whopping 44 league goals and 20 league assists from last season.

Chuba 28 goals 2 assists
Archer 11 goals. 6 assists
Ramsey 5 goals. 1 assist
Giles. Nil goals. 11 assists
Watmore😍 5 goals. 2 assist

total. 49 goals. 22 assists

I think Carrick is a top, top, up and coming coach, and I don’t want to ride the doom and gloom bandwagon, but boy oh boy have the coaching staff got their work cut out now. Recruitment team really need to pull a few rabbits out of hats and ideally bring in some proven quality to join the projects/gambles.

Getting Archer back (loan with view to buy?) would go some distance towards redressing the loss of goals and assists, but I can’t see us having much chance of seeing him turn out for us again, given there would surely be richer, bigger clubs interested were he really available at a price we could afford?
Jones rediscovering his form could also add good numbers, but we really need some of the new boys to come good right at the beginning, which must be putting a lot of pressure on them and may end up with them being judged unfairly over the next couple of months as they try to fill some big boots and settle in.

My confident prediction of 2nd place this season has completely evaporated over the last 3 or 4 weeks, sadly.

Still, I fancy a good win today. 4 nowt Boro with Forrs among the goals!
UTFB!

edited to add Watmore‘s contribution.
Click to expand...
They leave a massive hole.
 
TeaCider said:
We were 21st when Carrick took over on the 17th game, I'm not including the period before then because it's clearly not a period that was successful or that we need to try and emulate.
Click to expand...

You're not including that period because it doesn't fit your narrative.

Wilder finished 7th in 2021/22 and although we just missed out and Wilder was a bit of a doyle... "At that time" fans were pretty happy with our progress.

We had 16 different league goal scorers that season too. Last season we only had 11.

TeaCider said:
We signed Archer on the 6th of January.

In those 11 games between Carrick's arrival and Archer's, we scored 21 goals and Akpom scored 9 and assisted 1 of them.
So 48% of the goals under Carrick till that point directly involved Akpom, which would be comfortably the most of any player.

Losing Akpom and Archer is taking a huge number of goals out of the side, and both will need adequately replacing.
Click to expand...

I'm not disagreeing that losing Akpom and Archer is taking goals out of the side - My point is you replace the goals, not the players.

After the 2021/2022 season we were all saying similar things about being able to replace Tavernier - if McGree will be good enough.
Sporar/Connolly/Balogan all went back, Akpom at the time was rubbish - We started the season with Watmore as our only striker.
The Crooks/Jones partnership (Crooks scored over 10 goals that season) was starting to get found out too... How were we going to replace that...

Situations change, and that's why managers like Carrick get paid a lot of money to adapt to those changes.

I think we'll see goals more widely spread throughout the team this season.
McGree scored 6 last season. Can he score more than that? - I think so.
Hackney only got 3 last season. He's already scored in pre-season and nearly scored last weekend. Can he score more?
One goal from CB positions last season. Possibly the worst record we've had for years - I know a scoring CB isn't really important - but goals are goals. Can we get a few from that position?

No matter what striker we bring in, fans are going to have an instant disliking to him because he's not Archer, and that's a bad mentality all round.
 
Ash88 said:
You're not including that period because it doesn't fit your narrative.
Click to expand...

Fine, in the full 26 games before we signed Archer, we scored 40 goals, Akpom scored 13 and assisted 1, 35% of our goal tally, comfortably the most goal involvements of any player.
The next best was Forss on 4 goals and 3 assists (18%), followed by Giles on 7 assists (18%) and Watmore on 5 goals and 1 assist (15%).
Akpom was only available for 19 of those games too.

It fits the narrative fine, I just didn't think that anyone was including the pre-Carrick period of 4 wins in 16 games as part of the successful charge up the table that happened when Carrick took over.
 
TeaCider said:
Fine, in the full 26 games before we signed Archer, we scored 40 goals, Akpom scored 13 and assisted 1, 35% of our goal tally, comfortably the most goal involvements of any player.
The next best was Forss on 4 goals and 3 assists (18%), followed by Giles on 7 assists (18%) and Watmore on 5 goals and 1 assist (15%).
Akpom was only available for 19 of those games too.

It fits the narrative fine, I just didn't think that anyone was including the pre-Carrick period of 4 wins in 16 games as part of the successful charge up the table that happened when Carrick took over.
Click to expand...

I understand what you're saying, but it's not the individual players we need to replace; we need to replace the goals.

A good example is Crooks/Jones under Wilder in 2021/22 - I haven't checked but they probably had our most goal/assist involvements that season - or at least half that season...

We've kept the players (they haven't been replaced), but the goals/assists they were involved in were replaced the next season by changed our style of play.

Archer+Akpoms 40 goals could be replaced with.... Rogers 5, Silvera 5, Latte (if he signs) 5, McGree an extra 5, new #10 (if we sign one) 5, the CBs could jump in with 5... Hackney could score 1 - 2 more.

We might also play better defensively (Giles - was amazing going forward - but he probably cost us a couple of goals too), and concede 10 less...

It doesn't matter where the goals come from.
 
archer was a boss finisher, barely remember him having a shot and it not going in. trouble he had was dealing with tight marking. he got overwhelmed when a big cb got close to him forcing him to play with his back to goal. it that situation he was like a little boy getting pushed about off a bloke.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top