Middlesbrough centre experience.

Wiseman_Vaughn said:
But it's not just Middlesbrough/Teesside - It's everywhere. I don't think that anti social behaviour can be explained by lack of investment or jobs. There is more to it than that
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I never said its just
Wiseman_Vaughn said:
But it's not just Middlesbrough/Teesside - It's everywhere. I don't think that anti social behaviour can be explained by lack of investment or jobs. There is more to it than that
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I'm not saying it's totally to blame but there is well documented evidence that links crime and anti-social behaviour with poverty and deprivation. Of course it's a major factor. It's not an excuse but it is a fact.
 
I was in Stockton town centre on Monday and it was an easy enough visit. Parking was free (for three hours) I didn't get shouted at by any ne-er-do-wells nor accosted for "change", there was a slightly rubbish bucker I suppose. I thought the high street was clean and tidy, I like the way that they have cleaned up the look of the central reservation that used to be full of stalls on market day. It will look better when they knock down the Castlegate centre and replace it with a park but hey ho. Yes, there are a lot of empty shops (welcome to UK 2021) but I think Stockton is on an upward trajectory.
 
Wiseman_Vaughn said:
But it's not just Middlesbrough/Teesside - It's everywhere. I don't think that anti social behaviour can be explained by lack of investment or jobs. There is more to it than that
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A lot of it can be put down to lack of jobs.

When I was an apprentice in the shipyard, if I stepped out of line in the community, my journeyman would reprimand me, usually with a clout. The major industries policed themselves to a certain level. It was the same in villages and small towns. We don’t have this anymore.
 
Norman_Conquest said:
A lot of it can be put down to lack of jobs.

When I was an apprentice in the shipyard, if I stepped out of line in the community, my journeyman would reprimand me, usually with a clout. The major industries policed themselves to a certain level. It was the same in villages and small towns. We don’t have this anymore.
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Great point. I learned more about respect and honesty during serving my apprenticeship than I did in any other time of my life.
 
Norman_Conquest said:
A lot of it can be put down to lack of jobs.

When I was an apprentice in the shipyard, if I stepped out of line in the community, my journeyman would reprimand me, usually with a clout. The major industries policed themselves to a certain level. It was the same in villages and small towns. We don’t have this anymore.
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That's correct, the majority of our industry has been closed down and what remains is bereft of social responsibility.

The kindly village folk sold out, their kids had nowhere affordable so ended up in town centres.
 
Norman_Conquest said:
I stay in Niort overnight when travelling to the Atlantic Coast region of France and this town has similar problems. Niort is a beautiful French town that is classed as part of the French green Venice region. I must have stayed in this town on several occasions and on each time we have to pass a large group of homeless vagrants. This is usually around 8 pm and their drug of choice as well and truly kicked in, with them screaming and shouting at each other.

What I am getting at here, is this is not just an issue in Middlesbrough or any other major town or city in Britain, it is a worldwide issue. How to tackle it is the million dollar question.
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I don't think anyone is saying it's exclusively a Middlesbrough problem Norman. It seems it's the way of the world at the moment perpetuated by the ease people can buy and sell drugs, **** poor parenting where mums and dads are happier plonking their kids in front of a TV screen instead of doing the hard work and raising their kids to be decent human beings and a serious lack of discipline instilled amongst the youth of today.
In saying that none of us are perfect, I myself have been in trouble as a youngster but my parents and a teacher from my school soon sorted that out.
 
Randy said:
I don't think anyone is saying it's exclusively a Middlesbrough problem Norman. It seems it's the way of the world at the moment perpetuated by the ease people can buy and sell drugs, **** poor parenting where mums and dads are happier plonking their kids in front of a TV screen instead of doing the hard work and raising their kids to be decent human beings and a serious lack of discipline instilled amongst the youth of today.
In saying that none of us are perfect, I myself have been in trouble as a youngster but my parents and a teacher from my school soon sorted that out.
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I was just replying to the OP regarding the behaviour he witnessed in Middlesbrough and stating exactly the same as you have above.
 
Humpty said:
Leeds city centre is nothing like Middlesbrough’s centre. It’s had hundreds of millions invested in to and it’s a great place to live, work and play. There are homeless, it’s a big city after all, but there is no anti-social behaviour from them. You get occasional drink related behaviour but there’s no comparison to Middlesbrough centre. It’s fallen off a cliff.
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This sums up the Metro City/Left Behind places - that I keep bleating about.

The Metro cities in general have got the quality jobs and the investment - the people living there often don't realise other areas have not got that or they are not really interested in the left behind - you see it in the Labour Party and the BBC - we saw it in the EU Referendum Vote.

I can see the connection and some of the remedies, but others seem to struggle to or are not bothered.

Drugs and anti social flourish where there is a lack of opportunities, where there is economic poverty and poverty of life and drive. Where people don't see they can better themselves so the drugs become escapism from a drab world.
 
Youngie said:
Im no fan of Preston but you can't blame him for the current state, its been 20+ years of decline.

I will blame him (and predecessors) for the poor and mismanaged investment in ridiculous schemes without focusing on the absolute basics first.
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I agree. Also, he always comes across to me as a man very concerned with image and appearances. With a very large ego. I suppose that is the way of the world these days.
 
Mountain Climber said:
I agree. Also, he always comes across to me as a man very concerned with image and appearances. With a very large ego. I suppose that is the way of the world these days.
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I've met him a few times, professionally that is and I've always found him to be open minded and engaging, but he is a politician after all and that always brings with it an agenda that isn't always helpful.

On the subject of the OP, the area has suffered decades of neglect and under investment - the socio-economic factors in play are huge and it takes generations to improve things.

I'm in Newcastle tonight and even here the contrast with Middlesbrough is depressing really.
 
Colin Warnek said:
It isn't a worldwide issue. Some areas do manage to police this kind of drug abuse and anti social behaviour effectively.
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I won't say I have travelled extensively, but I haven't visited a city in which it didn't have drug problems. Could you enlighten us all on which countries tend to manage drug abuse and anti-social behaviour.
 
Colgates_shaving_foam said:
Spot on, I can't recall ever seeing any antisocial behaviour in London or any signs of people being intoxicated on the streets of Manchester. It's purely a Boro issue.
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Last time I was in Manchester there was some shirtless guy passed out on drink or drugs. Loads of others hanging around drinking shouting and bawling. Never see the (real)Police. Same in Middlesbrough and I said about a month ago it is getting worse and an imtimadating place.
 
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The police are now reduced to the role of anti violence social workers.
social workers are reduced to community mental health support and human refuse workers .
Maggie introduced Care in the Community.
I Live in Manchester and North Yorkshire, some communities are well shielded from the hopelessness of drug use and social / mental health care.
A strong supportive and enforced drug and mental health support organisation is needed , by enforced I mean that clean up programmes or detox must be enforced to save some of the most lost of these poor pathetic people.
 
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Norman_Conquest said:
I won't say I have travelled extensively, but I haven't visited a city in which it didn't have drug problems. Could you enlighten us all on which countries tend to manage drug abuse and anti-social behaviour.
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Japan
South Korea
Singapore

For 3. These things can never be wiped out in a utopian fashion but can be controlled with sensible policies
 
Norman_Conquest said:
I think you need to have a google of them three countries, especially Singapore and Japan.
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I'm not googling I'm speaking from experience of those places. Of course there are some issues but generally drugs and antisocial behaviour of the kind in this thread are fewer.
 
Colin Warnek said:
I'm not googling I'm speaking from experience of those places. Of course there are some issues but generally drugs and antisocial behaviour of the kind in this thread are fewer.
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Like I said, in my earlier posts, drugs are prevalent in all major cities. I think what you are saying, the authorities in these areas you mention deal with it better.
 
Norman_Conquest said:
I stay in Niort overnight when travelling to the Atlantic Coast region of France and this town has similar problems. Niort is a beautiful French town that is classed as part of the French green Venice region. I must have stayed in this town on several occasions and on each time we have to pass a large group of homeless vagrants. This is usually around 8 pm and their drug of choice as well and truly kicked in, with them screaming and shouting at each other.

What I am getting at here, is this is not just an issue in Middlesbrough or any other major town or city in Britain, it is a worldwide issue. How to tackle it is the million dollar question.
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Rennes is the same, a few years ago the Mayor of Paris had a round up of “ undesirables” and put them on 1 way tickets out of Paris. I have no doubt it’s regularly repeated.
 
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