Meanwhile, in Sweden...

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4 deaths in Hong Kong.
They have been locked down for 10 weeks - though more like our lock down than in Spain.
 
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret said:
Didn't they lock down much much earlier?
But yeah still strange. I guess it's partly interconnectivity, partly luck. All it needs is one gadge to go spreading it to loads of people.
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I don’t think they did - there was a bit of a fuss because Denmark bunkered down and they are linked by the bridge at Malmo. As Sweden didn’t lockdown they closed the bridge.
 
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret said:
I should imagine so. The more connected a city is the sooner it will get the virus. They are saying in new york the cases come from europe when Americans flew home. Multinational is probably the wrong word. Global hub is more what I'm trying to say. Flights in and out all the time.
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I agree with that. What surprised me was the lack of government will when it comes to quarantine.

Overcrowding and poverty will be playing a role too.
 
Lefty said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1248307455353860097
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His numbers are wrong. Sweden recorded 12 deaths in the last 24 hours.

A couple of things worth noting. Swedes are differentiating between died of and died with. They are also, apparently, not sending the oldest and sickest to hospital and ICU, so they are often dying in care homes and not figuring in the stats. It sounds callous but one of their top docs said (paraphrasing) "We make choices like this all the time, at the scene of car accidents for instance. We apply our efforts to those likely to survive."
 
borolad259 said:
His numbers are wrong. Sweden recorded 12 deaths in the last 24 hours.

A couple of things worth noting. Swedes are differentiating between died of and died with. They are also, apparently, not sending the oldest and sickest to hospital and ICU, so they are often dying in care homes and not figuring in the stats. It sounds callous but one of their top docs said (paraphrasing) "We make choices like this all the time, at the scene of car accidents for instance. We apply our efforts to those likely to survive."
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His numbers were right when he posted it on 9 April.
 
borolad259 said:
His numbers are wrong. Sweden recorded 12 deaths in the last 24 hours.

A couple of things worth noting. Swedes are differentiating between died of and died with. They are also, apparently, not sending the oldest and sickest to hospital and ICU, so they are often dying in care homes and not figuring in the stats. It sounds callous but one of their top docs said (paraphrasing) "We make choices like this all the time, at the scene of car accidents for instance. We apply our efforts to those likely to survive."
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Nothing like skewed numbers from a Norwegian it's almost like they are rivals or something... 🤔

Again it should be reiterated it's all about how you count the numbers.

I've noticed that the guardian have been spending the past few days claiming care home numbers aren't included ... In the DAILY figures and that's some kind of horrific government cover up and yet, read in the details.. they are included in the ONS figures. In fact people from the community are included without positive test results if they show symptoms OR if they have a positive test OR if a Dr makes a clinical decision based on symptoms without a test.

And some of them have the gall to suggest the numbers are under inflated.
 
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Glad everything is hunky dory.

Unlike in France who do include care homes and other community days.

The ONS figures were frightening last Tuesday but it shows that the daily underreporting from hospitals is very big due to long reporting delays that can go back weeks.
 
Nothings hunky dory...

We've not supplied drs and nurses with correct equipment so they are suffering.

People are dying before their time

We have decided to crush the world economy in ways not seen since the great depression, which will cause untold (literally) suffering

And rushed through with zero scrutiny a bill which gives the government, judiciary and police force unprecedented powers.

Yet look at naughty Sweden for trying deal with the situation differently, attempting to balance the need for healthcare, civil liberty and economics.

I'd love to know how we will pay for the NHS we all appreciate so much with no tax receipts going forward...
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
Has multinationality anything to do with it?
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Probably. This will naturally lead to more movement of people in and out of a country which helps the spread.

They are also questioning whether “ethnic minorities” are suffering higher mortality rates. Although I guess it’s early days to know if that’s true.

Sweden is much more sparsely populated than the UK. Their cities are nothing in comparison to UK cities in terms of size.

I think I read an article recently that suggested they had the highest proportion of people living on their own compared to other countries which helps containment.

There is also a lot of respect and trust of the government in Sweden according to a colleague of mine. So when they are asked to isolate they do it - unlike in most counties who have to put stricter controls in place to aid compliance.

It’s difficult to compare Sweden to UK in many ways.
 
Can't disagree with most of that @Alvez_48 . As the link above says, Sweden are in a worse place than us in understanding how Covid-19 is getting into the community and that makes policy making even more difficult.
 
Oh, we will find the money to pay nurses more that’s for sure.
Johnson has just worked out they do something good.

Mind you - those with not enough points in the future (one of whom tended him) can just do one
 
Sweden is a country with a history of high taxation. With good investment in support services for the people. Including health services. So they will perhaps have a higher threshold to reach in terms of the capacity of their health services. So maybe that has influenced their approach.
 
spanishman said:
Sweden is a country with a history of high taxation. With good investment in support services for the people. Including health services. So they will perhaps have a higher threshold to reach in terms of the capacity of their health services. So maybe that has influenced their approach.
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They are usually ranked a touch below us in healthcare and ICU beds.
 
There is a lot at play with Sweden, they do have a well funded health service but even the current PM has said that they were under=prepared for this pandemic, and that all recent parties/govts are to blame.
Small Town is right that Swedes are good at social distancing. They also have a very high percentage of people living alone. The young tend to leave the parental home very early in life. It is also a large country with few people, so social distancing is quite easy (at my place in Sweden the nearest neighbour in one direction is 200m away, the other direction it's about 600m.

The Swedes place a high degree of importance on doing the right thing as a society ... and they are very much resistant to handing the government draconian/fascist type powers. This is why, up to press, they have no lockdown.

The epidemiologist in charge, Anders Tegnell, is quite a "conservative" (with a small c) fellow. Very measured in his approach. He doesn't think that shutting schools and locking people down does much to limit the spread of disease, but he believes those things are damaging socially. He also points out that this epidemic is likely to be a long, drawn out, affair. So people need to be comfortable with coping with restrictive measures for a long time. He says that they may have got it wrong, but also that, if they have it right, they will come out of the crisis long before "lockdown" nations ... who will still have to deal with the virus.
 
I back up what Small Town says that the Swedes naturally socially isolate - they don't do pubs etc like the Brits do.
 
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