Meanwhile, in Sweden...

Status
Not open for further replies.
Where to start with that...

1. "the catching up a generation of kids will need to do" they all start with pretty much equal disadvantage vs the people they will be competing against - those of their own age group

2. "some will be successful, most won't be" I could say that most WILL be successful, I don't know, neither do you. that's just your bias

3. "The generation of babies and toddlers who've regressed during lockdowns through black of social contacts, even with their own families." Nah kids are more resilient than you credit them with, this was their "normal". I'm not saying that some kids have not been adversely affected but most haven't. Ask those who have lost a parent or other close relative how COVID has affected them.

4. "my view that lockdowns shouldn't have ever happened" not supported by any empirical evidence, where lockdowns were applied promptly they had a measurable affect on excess mortality.

5. " medical and social services should have been funded correctly" of course they should have been. Sadly the stable door had been left open and the horses had long since skedaddled. As shown by the ludicrous construction of the emotively named "Nightingale Hospitals" you can't simply magic doctors and nurses out of thin air (not helped with telling a sizeable chunk of them that they are not wanted in our country)

6. " stickers on floors, one way systems in open areas" if you are trying to reduce transmission of an airborne virus it is a sensible idea to keep people from bunching together. Doesn't make a lot of difference but when you are talking about infections in their thousands even preventing a small percentage of infections helps.

7. "phone apps that don't work" got to keep those Party Donors on the gravy train.

8. "PPE that doesn't do anything" well proper PPE does do something you might have noticed surgeons wearing masks in theatre? That's because it does "something". Of course getting your mates to buy useless tat purporting to be PPE is another top way to get your mates' noses in the trough.
1 and 2. Muttley, do you have any kids in primary school? Teachers, kids charities and other notable professionals have all commented on how kids have regressed or not learnt basic skills like holding cutlery properly, speech problems, anxiety issues rising, kids scared of been near other kids after having two years of 'dont stand next to someone it's dangerous ' drilled into them.
 
Last edited:
I always knew Fabio would laugh at the thought of no lockdowns.

One wonders if he's taken into account the catching up a generation of kids will need to do, some will be successful, most won't be. The generation of babies and toddlers who've regressed during lockdowns through black of social contacts, even with their own families.
The economic catastrophe that the globe now finds itself in which funnily enough can't be attributed to just brexit.

I could go on but I stand by my view that lockdowns shouldn't have ever happened and medical and social services should have been funded correctly instead of spunking millions at stickers on floors, one way systems in open areas, phone apps that don't work and PPE that doesn't do anything other than make the dealer (usually China) richer.

The laughing face was because, of course, you liked one of the biggest antivaxxers on the forum saying lockdowns should never be allowed to happen.
It is such an utterly simplistic view completely devoid of context, nuance, scientific reasoning or critical thought.

The discussion around why lockdowns were one of the crudest but only tools available at the height of the pandemic in this country, a somewhat necessary evil at the time, has been done to death but the misinformation pushers that you followed kept trying to paint out that everyone who accepted them was a ‘lockdown lover’ thus seeding division and starting arguments which clouded sensible discussion, taking in lots of naive or ill-informed folk along the way, stirring the division further, exactly as they planned to. Groups like HART painted a narrative whereby ‘they’ (whoever ‘they’ are …) were deliberately hurting the little man and woman and trashing economies needlessly, and ‘they’ didn’t care one iota about anyone….Presumably they just did it for a laugh?

I mean the thought that governments around the world, listening to the advice of professional full time public health emergency experts around the world, implemented lockdowns on a whim, presumably to hurt us all, trashing economies, is just utterly preposterous….

No, a pub landlord from nowhere who likes 96k accounts on Twitter (Brooke’s) and a few shock-jock gobshites like JHB and Neil Oliver know better…..

That’s why I responded with a laughing face.
 
1 and 2. Muttley, do you have any kids in primary school? Teachers, kids charities and other notable professionals have all commented on how kids have regressed or bit learnt basic skills like holding cutlery properly, speech problems, anxiety issues rising, kids scared of been near other kids after having two years of 'dont stand next to someone it's dangerous ' drilled into them.
Oh I don't doubt that such problems are being encountered.

Firstly I believe that the kids will recover better from this than most adults. Kids generally do. As I said this was their "normal". There will of course be some that will not. Kids on the Autistic spectrum may find it very difficult.

Secondly, The alternative was what? No lockdown when we had no vaccines and little data about how virulent the virus was? The NHS was already at capacity. I know several doctors and nurses who were working 16 hours and sleeping 8 - double shift, sleep, repeat. No lockdown people dying un helped in unattended beds, mass graves and bodies in the street?

You OK with that?
 
The laughing face was because, of course, you liked one of the biggest antivaxxers on the forum saying lockdowns should never be allowed to happen.
It is such an utterly simplistic view completely devoid of context, nuance, scientific reasoning or critical thought.

The discussion around why lockdowns were one of the crudest but only tools available at the height of the pandemic in this country, a somewhat necessary evil at the time, has been done to death but the misinformation pushers that you followed kept trying to paint out that everyone who accepted them was a ‘lockdown lover’ thus seeding division and starting arguments which clouded sensible discussion, taking in lots of naive or ill-informed folk along the way, stirring the division further, exactly as they planned to. Groups like HART painted a narrative whereby ‘they’ (whoever ‘they’ are …) were deliberately hurting the little man and woman and trashing economies needlessly, and ‘they’ didn’t care one iota about anyone….Presumably they just did it for a laugh?

I mean the thought that governments around the world, listening to the advice of professional full time public health emergency experts around the world, implemented lockdowns on a whim, presumably to hurt us all, trashing economies, is just utterly preposterous….

No, a pub landlord from nowhere who likes 96k accounts on Twitter (Brooke’s) and a few shock-jock gobshites like JHB and Neil Oliver know better…..

That’s why I responded with a laughing face.

The following from an article that people from both sides of the fence will agree is a good article which o found interesting and is what ultimately narks me off with some of the comments on here over the past two years.

"Even if it were possible to isolate the number of deaths prevented through a lockdown, it’s hard to measure other costs and benefits associated with coronavirus policies.

Confining people to their homes may have reduced their odds of spreading the virus. But staying home may have raised other risks, such as domestic abuse, addiction and mental health problems and the harms from delayed treatments for other medical conditions.

Among children, the lack of in-person schooling can hurt learning and raised rates of anxiety, depression and sleep disorders.

Other potential costs can be measured only in the future – such as smaller expected earnings among people whose learning was slowed down.

On the flip side, mask-wearing and social isolation may have had the unintended benefit of temporarily countering seasonal flu, which kills about 40,000 Americans a year. And there may have been technological innovations – like improved video-conferencing – sparked by lockdowns. It’s simply too early to tell.

While the ultimate economic effect of lockdowns may be negative, lockdowns may still be justified if people value a dollar today more than one tomorrow. But policymakers, let alone citizens, simply do not agree how much society should value today’s versus tomorrow’s dollars. Indeed, this perhaps fuels the biggest disagreements over policies with delayed effects."

Lots of mays there agreed. But some are still guilty of refusing to understand the perils that lockdowns caused as underlined above.

 
The following from an article that people from both sides of the fence will agree is a good article which o found interesting and is what ultimately narks me off with some of the comments on here over the past two years.

"Even if it were possible to isolate the number of deaths prevented through a lockdown, it’s hard to measure other costs and benefits associated with coronavirus policies.

Confining people to their homes may have reduced their odds of spreading the virus. But staying home may have raised other risks, such as domestic abuse, addiction and mental health problems and the harms from delayed treatments for other medical conditions.

Among children, the lack of in-person schooling can hurt learning and raised rates of anxiety, depression and sleep disorders.

Other potential costs can be measured only in the future – such as smaller expected earnings among people whose learning was slowed down.

On the flip side, mask-wearing and social isolation may have had the unintended benefit of temporarily countering seasonal flu, which kills about 40,000 Americans a year. And there may have been technological innovations – like improved video-conferencing – sparked by lockdowns. It’s simply too early to tell.

While the ultimate economic effect of lockdowns may be negative, lockdowns may still be justified if people value a dollar today more than one tomorrow. But policymakers, let alone citizens, simply do not agree how much society should value today’s versus tomorrow’s dollars. Indeed, this perhaps fuels the biggest disagreements over policies with delayed effects."

Lots of mays there agreed. But some are still guilty of refusing to understand the perils that lockdowns caused as underlined above.

Mate, you're down a rabbit hole of self confirmation.
 
Lockdowns did what they were supposed to do - make things worse for all of us “plebs”.
There has never been a point in history where healthy people have been asked to quarantine themselves, it is just too stupid for words - it’s like taking a demolition ball to crack a walnut, and may i remind you that the U.K. government downgraded covid 19 from a high consequence infection disease to a non high consequence infectious disease just a few days BEFORE they told us all to hide away in our homes 😵‍💫 whilst our PM was busy organising parties with his chums in number 10 - that’s how deadly they all thought it was. They spent the best part of two years pounding us with a terror campaign for what was essentially a case of the sniffles or no symptoms at all for most who got it
 
Lockdowns did what they were supposed to do - make things worse for all of us “plebs”.
There has never been a point in history where healthy people have been asked to quarantine themselves, it is just too stupid for words - it’s like taking a demolition ball to crack a walnut, and may i remind you that the U.K. government downgraded covid 19 from a high consequence infection disease to a non high consequence infectious disease just a few days BEFORE they told us all to hide away in our homes 😵‍💫 whilst our PM was busy organising parties with his chums in number 10 - that’s how deadly they all thought it was. They spent the best part of two years pounding us with a terror campaign for what was essentially a case of the sniffles or no symptoms at all for most who got it

Go to bed son….. you’ve had too much rabbit hole juice.
 
Mate, you're down a rabbit hole of self confirmation.
My earlier point proven by one of the merry men. Even an article that is completely central to the argument for or against lockdowns is dismissed because it contains truths that they refuse to comprehend as happening because it hasn't happened to them.
🎈

How is Sweden by the way Borolad, how's society getting on over there?
 
Last edited:
I always knew Fabio would laugh at the thought of no lockdowns.

One wonders if he's taken into account the catching up a generation of kids will need to do, some will be successful, most won't be. The generation of babies and toddlers who've regressed during lockdowns through black of social contacts, even with their own families.
The economic catastrophe that the globe now finds itself in which funnily enough can't be attributed to just brexit.

I could go on but I stand by my view that lockdowns shouldn't have ever happened and medical and social services should have been funded correctly instead of spunking millions at stickers on floors, one way systems in open areas, phone apps that don't work and PPE that doesn't do anything other than make the dealer (usually China) richer.
You do realise this would have killed many many more people don't you?
 
Here is a little reading about Sweden’s herd immunity strategy that the likes of Randy and Funky won’t bother reading, because they are so far down the rabbit hole they don’t need to read both sides of any discussion -


 
Yes Randy fall into line immediately or you’ll be taken the naughty step 😵‍💫

Yes, it’s not fair…..this is exactly why the likes of Toby Young and TalkShiteRadio and the Daily Mail and the GBNews goons keep banging on about protecting Freedom of Speech 🤬

…….So they can continue to feed the ignorant, the naive, the vulnerable, the ill-informed, the manipulated, the misdirected and the just-plain-daft-but-decent-folk out there with misinformation, data-misrepresentation and downright lies, controlling where the anger is directed, sowing division and keeping the culture wars alive so the distraction, propaganda, and divide and conquer merchants can continue to thrive.

Funky and Randy are the real victims and Rob is the bad guy…..
Pahahahahahaha 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
 
Data produced by the equivalent of the ONS over there puts Sweden at the bottom of the league in Europe for excess deaths during the pandemic. "Well they would do" I hear cynics say. Fair enough. Except this analysis concurs.

 
Here's the data from another study showing excess deaths 2020 to 2022. Obviously interesting from the point of view that they famously/infamously did things a little differently and never had lockdown, or compulsory mask wearing. They were quite quick to vaccinate though. As Anders Tegnell said at the time, it would be some time before the success or failure of their strategy could be judged.



or compu Excess deaths.jpg
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top