Manual v Automatic cars

I've only ever had one automatic.

Although it was the terrific DSG in a golf GTI. I guess it's 'semi auto' as its got flappy paddles.

I'm now back on manual. I don't mind it really. DSG was nice and I had absolutely no issues.

Yet I was always a bit worried about it after the dealership warrenty ran out. They can be an absolute expensive nightmare if anything goes wrong. A mate of mine had a skoda vrs and his had issues under warrenty. He needed a new 'clutch plate' thingy that would have been 3k if not under warranty. Then told if it didn't solve the issue he'd need a new DSG gear box (I'm sure it was around 9-11k). Although again under warrenty.

They are superb if like everything well maintained by regular serving and gear box oil changes etc.

How long before this becomes an EV thread? 😉
 
SmallTown said:
I think this is the correct answer really. Manuals are more engaging to drive,you have more of a sense you are controlling the machine. I guess that'll all go away soon. Almost all EV only have a single gear.
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No, the correct answer is automatics are for sissies, manuals are far more manly. :giggle:
 
Manual is nearly always the better option as they are much more reliable than automatics in the long term. I guess this doesn't matter so much if you're leasing/renting a vehicle, but for real ownership - manual is the way to go.

There's all sorts of bad stories with auto transmissions down the years and that dramatically increased when they brought in new technology. A particular weakness has been Dual Clutch Transmissions (DCTs) which have been used by many of the major car manufacturers. The DSG version used by VW has long been known to be a weakness and Ford have had all sorts of problems over the years resulting in court action that meant they've had to payout huge sums of money in compensation. Ford were also putting these transmissions in Volvo cars that used non-Volvo engines. BMW also used a variant of a DCT for over a decade but have recently reverted back to a conventional auto box due to reliability issues.

DCTs have often been known to fail at around 50k miles, but even many of the traditional autos can also have problems pre 100k. The major problem is most manufacturers don't list the transmission as a serviceable item which sets them up to fail. They do this to keep the business leasing market happy, less maintenance and all that. But for the person buying it used at a few years old or after this, there's potentially going to be issues that could effectively mean that a repair would be uneconomical.
 
JustTheGent said:
Manual is nearly always the better option as they are much more reliable than automatics in the long term. I guess this doesn't matter so much if you're leasing/renting a vehicle, but for real ownership - manual is the way to go.

There's all sorts of bad stories with auto transmissions down the years and that dramatically increased when they brought in new technology. A particular weakness has been Dual Clutch Transmissions (DCTs) which have been used by many of the major car manufacturers. The DSG version used by VW has long been known to be a weakness and Ford have had all sorts of problems over the years resulting in court action that meant they've had to payout huge sums of money in compensation. Ford were also putting these transmissions in Volvo cars that used non-Volvo engines. BMW also used a variant of a DCT for over a decade but have recently reverted back to a conventional auto box due to reliability issues.

DCTs have often been known to fail at around 50k miles, but even many of the traditional autos can also have problems pre 100k. The major problem is most manufacturers don't list the transmission as a serviceable item which sets them up to fail. They do this to keep the business leasing market happy, less maintenance and all that. But for the person buying it used at a few years old or after this, there's potentially going to be issues that could effectively mean that a repair would be uneconomical.
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VAG advise 60,00 service intervals on the DSG.

The Ford PowerShift has been an unmitigated disaster from day one.

The DCT is listed as lifetime oil, but most people agree that a 60,000 service interval keeps them in tip top shape. Any competent garage can do it.

BMW moved away from DCT because it couldn't handle the power of the new engines, not because of it not working. The ZF eight speed is tougher and can handle the extra grunt.
 
BaronSmoggie said:
VAG advise 60,00 service intervals on the DSG.

The Ford PowerShift has been an unmitigated disaster from day one.

The DCT is listed as lifetime oil, but most people agree that a 60,000 service interval keeps them in tip top shape. Any competent garage can do it.

BMW moved away from DCT because it couldn't handle the power of the new engines, not because of it not working. The ZF eight speed is tougher and can handle the extra grunt.
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Conventional autos still need a fluid change but they are often said to be sealed units by the manufacturer and they say a fluid change is not needed. Changing the fluid in a DCT is part of the maintenance schedule, but this often isn't carried out. Most garages wouldn't do it unless specifically asked for by the customer. Of course, most customers don't ask.

DCTs have been used in many high powered sports cars, that's where they originated from in the modern day. The supplier for BMW also had some of their units used by Ferrari, this was the same supplier for Ford. Other manufacturers of higher powered cars have also used various forms of DCT. But in any case, if a DCT couldn't handle the power of a particular BMW, that wouldn't be classed as working.
 
JustTheGent said:
Conventional autos still need a fluid change but they are often said to be sealed units by the manufacturer and they say a fluid change is not needed. Changing the fluid in a DCT is part of the maintenance schedule, but this often isn't carried out. Most garages wouldn't do it unless specifically asked for by the customer. Of course, most customers don't ask.

DCTs have been used in many high powered sports cars, that's where they originated from in the modern day. The supplier for BMW also had some of their units used by Ferrari, this was the same supplier for Ford. Other manufacturers of higher powered cars have also used various forms of DCT. But in any case, if a DCT couldn't handle the power of a particular BMW, that wouldn't be classed as working.
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I'm curious about the weakness of the DSG as I can't really find anything wide scale outside of people not doing proper maintenance on them.

The bit in bold isn't really what I said though. It was fine for the previous gen car, it was rated to handle that power, but they couldn't get it rated for the upped power in the new car so switched. So yes, it did work as designed.

I still prefer them to manuals now. My Mk7 Golf GTi with DSG was a hell of a lot of fun. We chopped it in for the same car with a manual 3 years later, and I felt it had lost some of what made it great, the manual didn't suit the car.
 
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BaronSmoggie said:
I'm curious about the weakness of the DSG as I can't really find anything wide scale outside of people not doing proper maintenance on them.

The bit in bold isn't really what I said though. It was fine for the previous gen car, it was rated to handle that power, but they couldn't get it rated for the upped power in the new car so switched. So yes, it did work as designed.

I still prefer them to manuals now. My Mk7 Golf GTi with DSG was a hell of a lot of fun. We choped it in for the same car with a manual 3 years later, and I felt it had lost some of what made it great, the manual didn't suit the car.
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I think there are wet and dry clutch DSGs within VAG. Some have been problematic others OK.
'Honest John' seems to have a good handle on which DSGs have been troublesome.
Quite a number of hybrid vehicles seem to have CVT transmissions, sorry I just can't get the DAF Variomatic out of my head.😐
 
DSG boxes are not problematic. Maybe the early ones were but I doubt they'd put them in cars that are 300bhp plus if they couldn't handle the stress.

I've had DSG for the last 10 years and would never change now.
 
My wife is a terrible driver who gets too distracted to change gear and screeches along in 2nd at 30mph, the engine begging for mercy. I'm longing to get her an automatic as it would surely save her on fuel. I had a 2L Primera automatic for years (surprisingly fast top end) and still miss it nearly 20 years later. Driving in London with the stop-start nature of the traffic was a breeze compared to manual, znd one of the overlooked benefits of autos is that you can feel up your girlfriend with your spare hand!
 
equaliser said:
My wife is a terrible driver who gets too distracted to change gear and screeches along in 2nd at 30mph, the engine begging for mercy. I'm longing to get her an automatic as it would surely save her on fuel. I had a 2L Primera automatic for years (surprisingly fast top end) and still miss it nearly 20 years later. Driving in London with the stop-start nature of the traffic was a breeze compared to manual, znd one of the overlooked benefits of autos is that you can feel up your girlfriend with your spare hand!
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Ditto Mrs Chickenrunner. Her speciality is leaving a bend in too high a gear. Fortunately the car is fitted with an audible change down warning. This takes the form of a pile of (empty) CD cases on the dashboard shelf so as she puts her foot down on exit from the bend the whole fecking lot rattles like an absolute bitch.🙄
 
italianjob said:
DSG boxes are not problematic. Maybe the early ones were but I doubt they'd put them in cars that are 300bhp plus if they couldn't handle the stress.

I've had DSG for the last 10 years and would never change now.
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DSG and other semi auto boxes are brilliant, but actually manual boxes that change automatically.

I know that sounds ridiculous, but it's true, they're miles different to a proper auto box.
 
Jonny Ingbar said:
DSG and other semi auto boxes are brilliant, but actually manual boxes that change automatically.

I know that sounds ridiculous, but it's true, they're miles different to a proper auto box.
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Yes definitely semi auto. They are arguably the best of both worlds.

You can drive around town hassle free and let it do what it wants. That or do a bit of B road blasting (observing the speed limit) using the flappy paddles and dropping it down a gear or two.

I had it in a 2015 golf gti. I doubt I'd buy another 'hot hatch' from the VAG group without it. Especially when big power like Golf Rs.
 
It used to be automatics used more fuel than manuals, but it's not the case now because they have 8 or so forward gears.
 
I passed in a manual about 6/7 years ago but then didn't own a car for about 5 years due to a bit of a breakdown in confidence. I bought an automatic 1.4 66plate Corsa last October and its spot on, i love not having to mess about with the gears and because i'm not the most confident driver, there is no chance of stalling at lights and the fact i can quickly pull away at junctions and roundabouts its just an excellent car that suits me perfectly.

I got a hire car for work today, a 21 plate automatic Lexus, it has so much more than my little Corsa, it's like the cockpit of a fighter jet, but basics are the same and i just love it. I must admit the start is a bit odd, keyless and footbrake, it's a different 'launch' than my car but they're basically just go karts aren't they, forget you're driving sometimes cos especially on long runs and in cruise control you do so little.

I'll never buy a manual, but i can see the appeal to people who like the more hands on approach, or actually get a thrill from driving with a manual gearbox its all personal choice. I'd say Automatic is definitely for the lazy, less confident and/or older driver whereas manual is for the boy racer manly men who love that gear shift and feel of controlling the engine.
 
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