Mandatory Jabs for NHS workers

[TeaCider]

Did you do any clapping and banging of pans?

I did for the first month, before it became meaningless, but I wasn't bothered by who else on the street was doing it as I'm not that petty.

Trying to guilt people over the fact that anti-vaxxers had to work with limited PPE doesn't hold much water when they proceed to turn down the best protection there is for no good reason.

 

[r00fie1]

Should Support Workers in the Community be told:
NO JAB, NO JOB?

Im talking about those who provide intimate care in peoples own living environment?

 

[Randy]

I did for the first month, before it became meaningless.

I rest my case.

 

[TeaCider]

I rest my case.

Your case being that I clapped?

Oooh, you've got me there.

I had no problem with doing so, it's a hard job and they were doing their part.

It doesn't change a thing about turning down the vaccine as a health care worker (or anyone) being idiotic and I don't think there's any hypocrisy there.

I also wasn't clapping for the carers who refuse to wash their hands.

 

[Andy_W]

So lets get this straight then. Regardless of the cost in staff, you are all for mandatory vaccinating or you leave?

If you are then you're nuts Andy. If you are hoping it doesn't come to that then I agree but if the government go ahead with this we can't afford to lose any staff and it will be much much more than 1% I am certain of that.

As I said instead of bickering let's wait and see. Firstly we won't be losing an insignificant number of staff. We will lose a lot. Secondly I would be very surprised if this move doesn't force staff out of the nhs, even those vaccinated, because you and others have gone from clapping to villifying.

The service is losing nurses due to government treatment of the profession and will continue to do so if this goes ahead.

I absolutely despair of you and folks like you who look down their noses at the very people risking their lives to save others under difficult circumstances. You are clearly happy with your position I find your opinion abhorrent.

There is no way, if you required life saving intervention you would ask about vaccination status. Your opinion quite frankly is worthless you don't do the job so I suspect a doctor or nurse won't really care about your opinion.

Shame on you and others like you.

I don't think there would be a degradation of care, 0.5% leaving (if it got to that) isn't as bad as more covid, or putting people at needless increased risk, which I expect is how the risks were calculated. Never mind the risk to the actual staff being off with covid, which is a big problem that was largely solved by vaccines.

I'd rather nobody left, but more important than that, is less people dying. I would expect that those in that profession would have some sort of grasp over risk reduction, but some just don't get it, just like in any profession. It's just like people can make poor decisions in their jobs, be bad at some jobs, or do more harm than good (not saying that's the case here, but spreading covid to 10 people on a ward, is not a good outcome).

Hypothetically, if an Anti-Vaxer wanted to treat my grandparents (for something non life threatening) I'd ask for someone else to be honest, I'd rather even pay private, same as I wouldn't want them in a care home with a load of anti-vaxers. End of the day they're being paid to help the public and should be doing all that is reasonable to do that, and the vaccines are more than reasonable, they protect the actual nurse for a start.

People like me? I know 10 nurses that all agree with me, most of them worked on a Covid ward or in A&E etc? You're disagreeing with them, to favour someone who does not understand risk reduction.

Who is on about life saving intervention? I'm on about the 100 old people in there with relatively mild problems (not dying), and I'm not for measures which can put them at increased risk, so some of them could need life saving intervention, when they otherwise didn't need it.

Shame on me who agrees with the vast majority of nurses who chose the vaccines? You're the one agreeing with a tiny percentage who don't, in a role which needs it most.

 

[Andy_W]

It's the false faces that **** me off Andy.

Folks clapped for them, banged pans for them, raised money for them, expected them to continue working whilst others locked themselves away from the world. Hell a woman my wife works with locked herself in at work for four weeks doing nightshifts 6 days a week having no contact at all with other members of staff and keeping herself in the guest room until day shift staff had cleaned down floors, touch points and others bits and left the building.

Now fast forward where we are and we have people demanding they lose their jobs thinking their is a magic carer tree they can just shake and other carers land on the floor like the best picked granny Smith's. The missus who is 8 months pregnant has been working 40 hour weeks for the past month because of the shortage of trained, competent staff.

During the first lockdown my wife not only worked in the building she currently works but also worked in places in Helmsley, Thirsk, Sunderland, Newcastle and Hull as part of a group of 8-10 carers. Consistently putting themselves and their families at risk every single day to keep care standards high. We found out today that one of the women who was part of this group has been forced into paid leave until the end of this month then unpaid leave until April unless she has the vaccine. So I stand with those care workers who are bang within their rights to tell those who want them sacked to stick their clapping and pan bashing. Majority of which have absolutely no idea the mental and physical tolls working through the pandemic had taken on carers.

I don't think anyone has changed opinion, people clapped as they were doing (and still are) hard, low paid, relentless work when there was no way out. But now there is a way out (vaccines), it's the only thing which has got us where we are today.

People aren't demanding they lose their jobs. People are asking them to choose between a safe vaccine and reduced risk from covid to themselves and others, or they can chose not to have it and put themselves and others at more risk. If that risk exceeds the risk assessment, then more measures need to be taken, it's what happens in every single risk assessment going. They have a duty of care, and they're paid by the people who they're meant to be looking after.

They more than most should see the damage that covid can do, so should have been the ones first in the queue.

They could have an anti-vax care home, with anti-vax staff, but I don't think it would get many clients.

 

[Randy]

I don't think anyone has changed opinion, people clapped as they were doing (and still are) hard, low paid, relentless work when there was no way out. But now there is a way out (vaccines), it's the only thing which has got us where we are today.

People aren't demanding they lose their jobs. People are asking them to choose between a safe vaccine and reduced risk from covid to themselves and others, or they can chose not to have it and put themselves and others at more risk. If that risk exceeds the risk assessment, then more measures need to be taken, it's what happens in every single risk assessment going. They have a duty of care, and they're paid by the people who they're meant to be looking after.

They more than most should see the damage that covid can do, so should have been the ones first in the queue.

They could have an anti-vax care home, with anti-vax staff, but I don't think it would get many clients.

People aren't demanding they lose their jobs? Yes they are.

For clarity which other sector has testing twice weekly for staff and once weekly for residents? (Granted not every care home will have those measures).

 

[Andy_W]

Should Support Workers in the Community be told:
NO JAB, NO JOB?
View attachment 27798
Im talking about those who provide intimate care in peoples own living environment?

I'd be less forceful with that, but still think they all should be, but I think everyone should and should have done that by choice before we got to this, but anti-vax propaganda, and lack of understanding, has largely led to this.

But back on to support workers, ultimately they're likely to be less risk overall, as less people being seen, and people being seen at home are largely not at the same risk as those in hospital. Of course there are some at home who are at major risk, but I suppose the damage could be more limited. Anyone just seeing old/ at major risk should be vaccinated.

 

[Andy_W]

People aren't demanding they lose their jobs? Yes they are.

For clarity which other sector has testing twice weekly for staff and once weekly for residents? (Granted not every care home will have those measures).

I'm not, I'm asking them to make the right choice.

I would prefer it that if they had to explain their choice, and have a talk about it, with a panel of experts and then let them decide if their choice is reasonable or not.

 

[Laughing]

I don't think there would be a degradation of care, 0.5% leaving (if it got to that) isn't as bad as more covid, or putting people at needless increased risk, which I expect is how the risks were calculated. Never mind the risk to the actual staff being off with covid, which is a big problem that was largely solved by vaccines.

I'd rather nobody left, but more important than that, is less people dying. I would expect that those in that profession would have some sort of grasp over risk reduction, but some just don't get it, just like in any profession. It's just like people can make poor decisions in their jobs, be bad at some jobs, or do more harm than good (not saying that's the case here, but spreading covid to 10 people on a ward, is not a good outcome).

Hypothetically, if an Anti-Vaxer wanted to treat my grandparents (for something non life threatening) I'd ask for someone else to be honest, I'd rather even pay private, same as I wouldn't want them in a care home with a load of anti-vaxers. End of the day they're being paid to help the public and should be doing all that is reasonable to do that, and the vaccines are more than reasonable, they protect the actual nurse for a start.

People like me? I know 10 nurses that all agree with me, most of them worked on a Covid ward or in A&E etc? You're disagreeing with them, to favour someone who does not understand risk reduction.

Who is on about life saving intervention? I'm on about the 100 old people in there with relatively mild problems (not dying), and I'm not for measures which can put them at increased risk, so some of them could need life saving intervention, when they otherwise didn't need it.

Shame on me who agrees with the vast majority of nurses who chose the vaccines? You're the one agreeing with a tiny percentage who don't, in a role which needs it most.

Nope didn't say any of that.

I have said my piece to avoid falling out i'll leave it there.

 

[Andy_W]

Nope didn't say any of that.

I have said my piece to avoid falling out i'll leave it there.

Ok, no probs

 

[r00fie1]

I'd be less forceful with that, but still think they all should be, but I think everyone should and should have done that by choice before we got to this, but anti-vax propaganda, and lack of understanding, has largely led to this.

But back on to support workers, ultimately they're likely to be less risk overall, as less people being seen, and people being seen at home are largely not at the same risk as those in hospital. Of course there are some at home who are at major risk, but I suppose the damage could be more limited. Anyone just seeing old/ at major risk should be vaccinated.

On the contrary: Support Workers travel amongst the public from Patient to Patients and can have a case load of 16 patients a day.
Often they meet with neighbours and family if there are issues around care and daily living.
In addition, they shop for their patients, pick up medicines,etc.
They are at higher risk because the environments in which they work are less controlled and managed.
Its totally inaccurate to say that hospitals are a more dangerous place than in the community.
The public are the biggest threat and above them the Government.

I wont get into further debate, because much of the text Ive bothered to survey is wasting my time.

 

[Andy_W]

On the contrary: Support Workers travel amongst the public from Patient to Patients and can have a case load of 16 patients a day.
Often they meet with neighbours and family if there are issues around care and daily living.
In addition, they shop for their patients, pick up medicines,etc.
They are at higher risk because the environments in which they work are less controlled and managed.
Its totally inaccurate to say that hospitals are a more dangerous place than in the community.
The public are the biggest threat and above them the Government.

I wont get into further debate, because much of the text Ive bothered to survey is wasting my time.

Fair enough, don't disagree with any of that, you're a lot more clued up on that than me. I only know one or two support workers (not all that well, but know they have it rough), but know a lot more at james cook etc.

What is the average age of people they're seeing, and how long are they in an around old folk and those most at risk from covid? Not trying to argue, genuinely interested.

If it's the case where they are more risk, then they should be mandated too.

Mandates should be in line with risk, more risk, more mandates imo.