Male Boxers fighting Females in the Olympics

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Trugdish said:
But she's a woman
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Have you listened to it? I’m happy to call her a woman and for her to live as one in day to day life but if she has XY chromosomes and the condition they talk about where someone has all of the developmental benefits that gives without necessarily developing male sex organs, I don’t think she should be allowed to compete in female sport, let alone punch women in the face.
 
SilentProf said:
Have you listened to it? I’m happy to call her a woman and for her to live as one in day to day life but if she has XY chromosomes and the condition they talk about where someone has all of the developmental benefits that gives without necessarily developing male sex organs, I don’t think she should be allowed to compete in female sport, let alone punch women in the face.
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So if you're opinion she isn't a woman despite having a vagina and a uterus?
 
Trugdish said:
So if you're opinion she isn't a woman despite having a vagina and a uterus?
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I don’t see how you got that from my post but let me be clear. If she believes she’s a woman, I’m happy to call her one. I’ve worked with trans women and had no problem calling them women either. My only concern is whether a genetic abnormality gives an athlete an unfair advantage over women they wish to compete against, especially combat sport where it could literally be a life or death issue.
 
TheBoy999 said:
Nobody knows her full condition. We don't even know if she is definitely xy because the results of the test have never been published. We are going off what IBA president Umar Kremlev said.
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After failing their sex test one of the boxers didn’t appeal the decision. The other did appeal then withdrew their appeal.

Why do you think that is? I mean, if you’re female and a test says you aren’t you’re going to appeal, surely.
 
SilentProf said:
I don’t see how you got that from my post but let me be clear. If she believes she’s a woman, I’m happy to call her one. I’ve worked with trans women and had no problem calling them women either. My only concern is whether a genetic abnormality gives an athlete an unfair advantage over women they wish to compete against, especially combat sport where it could literally be a life or death issue.
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She isn't trans. What are you not understanding?
 
The people saying 'he is a man' are being really unfair in this situation, in my opinion.
She is a woman, but she has traits that make it unfair for her to compete in the competition and as such even though it is really unfair she shouldn't be able to compete, again in my opinion.
She should get massive sympathy not be turned into a hate figure.
 
YouAreMyBoro said:
The people saying 'he is a man' are being really unfair in this situation, in my opinion.
She is a woman, but she has traits that make it unfair for her to compete in the competition and as such even though it is really unfair she shouldn't be able to compete, again in my opinion.
She should get massive sympathy not be turned into a hate figure.
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'Unfair' is being very kind imo. I think whether she (and others in similar situations) should be able to compete is a reasonable discussion to have but to call them 'a man' and 'he/him' is just insulting.
 
I do
king_hellfire said:
After failing their sex test one of the boxers didn’t appeal the decision. The other did appeal then withdrew their appeal.

Why do you think that is? I mean, if you’re female and a test says you aren’t you’re going to appeal, surely.
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I don't know and I wouldn't like to jump to any conclusions.

I'm on the fence with this. Clearly a man shouldn't be in the ring with a woman, I don't think that's up for debate. But the evidence simply isn't there to make a decision as to what she is (male/female).

We don't know for a fact that she has xy chromosomes but we can assume from that from what Umar Kremlev said and the fact it went unchallenged. What we do know for a fact is that you can have xy chromosomes and still be a woman. Still have female reproductive organs.

Maybe the Olympic rules on gender need to be more robust than they currently are but intersex people have been competing in sport for centuries and I get a feeling this is only coming to the forefront now because of the debate around trans women in sport which is something entirely different.
 
TheBoy999 said:
I do

I don't know and I wouldn't like to jump to any conclusions.

I'm on the fence with this. Clearly a man shouldn't be in the ring with a woman, I don't think that's up for debate. But the evidence simply isn't there to make a decision as to what she is (male/female).

We don't know for a fact that she has xy chromosomes but we can assume from that from what Umar Kremlev said and the fact it went unchallenged. What we do know for a fact is that you can have xy chromosomes and still be a woman. Still have female reproductive organs.

Maybe the Olympic rules on gender need to be more robust than they currently are but intersex people have been competing in sport for centuries and I get a feeling this is only coming to the forefront now because of the debate around trans women in sport which is something entirely different.
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It's because it is scientifically ambiguous in how you decide what a woman is. In a binary world of male/female it is really simple for 99.999% of cases but for the extremely small percent of people that it can be ambiguous for it is more difficult. It would be really simple to have simple rules like if you have a penis you are a male, if you have a uterus you are a female but if you have both, or neither then it is impossible to fit within a simple definition and someone has to make a decision.

Logically, we don't want to exclude anyone but realistically we probably have to. There are unfortunately some people that are ambiguous and it is simpler to say they should not be able to compete as female. It is unfortunate for that extremely small section of society but it has to be that way to maintain sporting integrity.

Don't forget that being unable to compete as women doesn't make them unable to compete. It just means they have to compete in a category they don't have an unfair biological advantage in which is the same for the majority of us not born as elite level athletes.
 
The Italian lass feared long term medical issues if she continued. It is clear the power XY lady had was way above what the norm would be for a non-XY lady to cope with and could lead to serious medical issues. That alone should prompt the Olympic Gods to step in and make a health and safety decision, This is not a race or a jump sport it is physical contact
 
My understanding of this is that the boxers failed gender tests so are ineligible in most other boxing comps. As this is the Olympics the criteria is different - it’s what they are considered on their passports, which is female.

It doesn’t seem fair to the women getting hammered by these larger boxers with XY chromosomes.

The fault here lies with the Olympics for using different eligibility criteria surely? Boxing, as a sport generally, seems to be doing pretty well on this, it’s just the IOC unsurprisingly, is it not?
 
MolteniArcore said:
My understanding of this is that the boxers failed gender tests so are ineligible in most other boxing comps. As this is the Olympics the criteria is different - it’s what they are considered on their passports, which is female.

It doesn’t seem fair to the women getting hammered by these larger boxers with XY chromosomes.

The fault here lies with the Olympics for using different eligibility criteria surely? Boxing, as a sport generally, seems to be doing pretty well on this, it’s just the IOC unsurprisingly, is it not?
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Problem is you can have xy chromosomes, have female sex organs and NOT go through male puberty. With Swyers Syndrome people don't go through any sort of puberty. You couldn't chuck them in a ring with fully developed men.

TBF Khelif isn't rippling in muscle, she's no Anthony Joshua. She's beatable and isn't a concussive puncher. If she was a full man she'd be knocking opponents out left, right and center. I think the hype got to the Italian and she was beaten before she got in the ring.

Atthe end of the day it's not like the East Germans feeding their female athletes male hormones. She was unfortunately born like that.

It's difficult and someone is always going to feel hard done by.
 
Duffman said:
No anger anywhere in my post? Just reasoned argument , no podcasts or sexy diagrams, just my own humble opinion.
I just don’t get how these women who were born as female (that’s their legitimate sex) then lived their life as female, competed as females up to now, bar one competition when the IBA would not allow their entry based on test results, but who it would appear have not failed any entry tests for this competition are;

A) now being described as men
B) having followed all the rules, being vilified for living their dream of boxing in the olympics

Strange world we live in.
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I used the word 'anger' simply to echo yourself and others when debating. I didn't think you were angry nor those putting across opposing views. It's a method used in here to belittle opposite views.

As for 'no podcast', it's well worth listening to what the people had to say, the science and the politics, and the way in which the Olympic Committee are breaking their own rules and trying to stop debate.
 
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