BBG you are always going to see things coloured by your bias. I don't really have a bias.
Good grief.
BBG you are always going to see things coloured by your bias. I don't really have a bias.
BBG quite the shift from the original topic.Oh dear. What you see as bias I see as realism.
In Starmer I see a man who lied his way to the leadership by trashing every pledge he made.
A man who is in the pockets of the Zionist lobbyists.
A man who has kicked dozens of Jews out of the party for being pro Palestine.
A man who has kicked the Forde report into the long grass rather than addressing it after it found that the Labour Party was racist and ran a hierarchy of racism.
And a man who despite being a top barrister and rising to DPP, is an absolutely useless politician who struggles with the simplest questions. Questions that a proper politician like Corbyn would smash out of the park.
BBG quite the shift from the original topic.
They're seems to be way too much confirmation bias here. The same with the 5 pledges thread.
People are interpreting things completely differently to suite their preconceptions.
Corbyn tweets support for a victim of anti-semitism but it's either too stupid or too blind to apologise or accept the as report findings in full. He can't have it both ways, he was the party leader and if he didn't protect all members, regardless of whether they were a good mp or not it speaks volumes about how weak he was.
If she was plotting behind his back eject her from the party.
Corbyn had 2 elections and failed twice.
Starmer was elected by the party to lead the party. Give him an election or 2 and support him and see where it gets us.
You want Corbyn style politics. It didn't work. Meanwhile milk formula has security measures in some stores to stop new mothers stealing to feed their children.
Consider that fact before calling starmer a tory.
And Luciana Berger played a bigger role in getting us here but you're happy to give her a free pass.I liked Corbyn but he is part of the reason we are where we are.
Who is acting like Militant? Do you even know what Militant, or even Corbyn for that matter, stand/stood for?But to act like Militant is just as daft imho, they would never get in.
You resurrected a semi-controversial thread from nearly a year ago. What were you expecting?You and the Corbyn cavalry need to grow up and move on. A simple post about somebody brought in by Labour to undertake a mental health review has got the lot of you frothing at the mouth. It's pathetic. I imagine you all sticking pins in a Starmer doll
That doesn't make any sense. The VoNC was part of the sabotage. It was called by Margaret Hodge.Once he lost the 2016 VoC he had a huge target on his back...
It's impossible to say with any certainty that the "unprecedented amount of sabotage" caused the loss in 2017. Obviously it didn't help, did it precipitate the loss? Impossible to say.
And yet the people you're now putting all your trust in are the very ones who were so politically astute they didn't see that 2017 could be a glorious victory if they pulled in the right direction.In 2017 he did a lot better than anyone thought he was going to. The VoC put the target on his back "yesterday's man" so those 127 were positioning themselves for the next leader. They never believed that he would win in 2017 and thought that he would go afterwards. It's politics.
We are gaslit by the idiot media who are bought and paid for
And some people still don't realise when they've been gaslit....yesterdays man who fvcked about over the years making enemies with his own supposed kind
No I haven't said a single word in support of her. I know nothing about her. This wasn't my point.And Luciana Berger played a bigger role in getting us here but you're happy to give her a free pass.
Not seeing the link BBG?No, not really, This was being discussed right at the beginning of this thread and in fact on Feb 28 2023 you posted the following:-
Am I missing something (it won't be the first time)?Not seeing the link BBG?
But if you know nothing about the MPs then how do you know if they are (or aren't, in this case - and across centrist Labour under Corbyn) doing these things?If they toe the party line and support the parties manifesto, that is much more important, to me
ReallyAnd Luciana Berger played a bigger role in getting us here but you're happy to give her a free pass.
Who is acting like Militant? Do you even know what Militant, or even Corbyn for that matter, stand/stood for?
There is no comparison for anyone with even an ounce of political awareness. Militant were Trotskyite, Corbyn was a North European Social Democrat.
You resurrected a semi-controversial thread from nearly a year ago. What were you expecting?
That doesn't make any sense. The VoNC was part of the sabotage. It was called by Margaret Hodge.
Considering the right of the party were expecting an overwhelming defeat and were given a ton aof air time and column inches to tell everybody how bad things were, the idea that it didn't have a significant impact on voting is ridiculous.
And yet the people you're now putting all your trust in are the very ones who were so politically astute they didn't see that 2017 could be a glorious victory if they pulled in the right direction.
The party members voted for him overwhelmingly. Twice. The vote after the VoNC should have been the end of it, but no, the centrists knew better. Tory rule was a price they were happy to pay (and were happy for me and you to pay too).
And some people still don't realise when they've been gaslit.
Well I would say it's up to th eparty leader to sort out that kind of behaviour.But if you know nothing about the MPs then how do you know if they are (or aren't, in this case - and across centrist Labour under Corbyn) doing these things?
I don't understand what my comment from last year has to do with you switching tack from explaining why you think Corbyn lost an election, to why you dislike Starmer. To be clear I don't like Starmer either. However, he will start to reverse the fall into abject poverty we see all around the country. Children going cold and hungry.Am I missing something (it won't be the first time)?
Did the 'sabotage' you speak of 'make him lose those 2 elections'?Well if you're discounting the unprecedented amount of sabotage that it took to make him lose those elections you're right. . And in a way you're right that he couldn't control his party but that's because his party was full of right wing, Blairite, Israel supporting wreckers who were determined to do anything to prevent a pro Palestinian become PM, and I don't believe you didn't notice that. See my three links above for examples.
If they toe the party line and support the parties manifesto, that is much more important, to me, than knowing them individually.
Here we must take notice of Edmund Burke's speech to the electors of Bristol in 1774.
Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion.
Well after the 2017 election they didn't raise him up on a pedestal so that they could knock him down again, they just carried on continuously. They are still at it, to this day people still talk glibly about Corbyn's antisemitism even on MSM, and it doesn't ever get challenged. For the record, for all the flak that was thrown at Corbyn over the years he was never actually found to be antisemitic, because he isn't.Did the 'sabotage' you speak of 'make him lose those 2 elections'?
2019 wasn't that close
Ah I see.You called me biased so I posted a few genuine reasons why I don't like Starmer to demonstrate that it was much more than simply bias toward another.I don't understand what my comment from last year has to do with you switching tack from explaining why you think Corbyn lost an election, to why you dislike Starmer. To be clear I don't like Starmer either. However, he will start to reverse the fall into abject poverty we see all around the country. Children going cold and hungry.
Right now I don't see an alternative.
This is where I completely disagree. If you measure the fall in poverty the same way we measure inflation then poverty inflation might be lower under Starmer than it is the Tories but he's not interested in the real change that is needed to reduce it. Replace the word poverty with any of economic equality, fair distribution of wealth, improving public services, increasing health/education outcomes etc.I don't understand what my comment from last year has to do with you switching tack from explaining why you think Corbyn lost an election, to why you dislike Starmer. To be clear I don't like Starmer either. However, he will start to reverse the fall into abject poverty we see all around the country. Children going cold and hungry.
Right now I don't see an alternative.
We will have to agree to disagree on this point Nano.This is where I completely disagree. If you measure the fall in poverty the same way we measure inflation then poverty inflation might be lower under Starmer than it is the Tories but he's not interested in the real change that is needed to reduce it. Replace the word poverty with any of economic equality, fair distribution of wealth, improving public services, increasing health/education outcomes etc.
Starmer and the Blairites are happy with the direction of travel, they just think they can do a better job of heading in that direction than the Tories.
Ah right, I get it. Too subtle for me when I am only half engaged, work an all that nonsense is getting in the way.Ah I see.You called me biased so I posted a few genuine reasons why I don't like Starmer to demonstrate that it was much more than simply bias toward another.
Starmer is sticking with austerity though so the cold and the hungry may have to wait a little longer.