London in Tier 2, Whole of North East Tier 3

atypical_boro said:
I don’t see how differing views would constitute falling out.

Kids have been bottom of the pile since day 1 on this. The impact on them hadn’t even been considered until July. Closing schools was absolutely the right thing to do in spring, but you can’t expect them to sacrifice years of their life to save the economy, the old, or any particular sector. I guess it’s easy to forget what it’s like to be young and fearful of what it’s like to be old.
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I just feel quite strongly about this and vastly differing views can escalate. I don't wish that to happen. I respect and understand your view, as I'm sure you do mine
 
Artie Fufkin said:
I just feel quite strongly about this and vastly differing views can escalate. I don't wish that to happen. I respect and understand your view, as I'm sure you do mine
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Ok fine, and of course I do, but I have no issue with discussing it and maintaining complete civility.
 
Artie Fufkin said:
When you allow the hospitality industry to die, education will no longer be a priority for those who are parents and have lost their jobs, putting food on the table will be a far more pressing concern.
The spread of the virus us absolutely the problem and until that is managed controlled we will remain in this intolerable situation

Children are not collateral damage in this, I genuinely don't believe kids will suffer long term as a result of not receiving education in a formal environment as the majority of parents will adopt a home schooling approach. This is not normal, but nor is the situation we find ourselves in and instead of striving for normality for just one demographic, we should learn to accept, indeed embrace, the abnormality to be flexible and adaptable

I'm sorry but I don't believe kids should be the priority, getting over the pandemic should be. I'm at a loss about your comment on having done our bit for the old and now it's up to them

I'm going to leave it there because we clearly have very different views on this and falling out with you is just about the very last thing I want to deal with right now, so that is not a possibility I wish to culture
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I don't agree with some of that.

The first lockdown when we got to June the difference in attitude in my eldest was very noticeable. Her nursery was only accepting kids who had parents in key working jobs, she hadn't seen any kids her age for 3 months at this point in the flesh.

I can't even begin to imagine how those kids in secondary school cope with isolation on top of everything else a teenager goes through.
 
bear66 said:
Nunthorpe has a rate of 293/100000 and Guisborough 280/100000. Both not too different than their respective boroughs.
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I'm not sure what your point is mate?

Both higher than Richmond and London though.

Gusibrough (290) is Tier 3, because it's in R&C UTLA (293) - Both of those rates are high, and in the worst 25% in the country
Nunthorpe and boro are similar, so same tier. Guisbrough west is 176, but is surrounded by worse, and still in R&C UTLA.

Richmond (169) is Tier 2, because it's in North Yorkshire UTLA (187) - Both of those rate are medium, and around 50% in the country

Obvisouly both Richmond and North Yorkshire are much better, so can warrant a low tier, if we're doing that.

If we have a tiered approach (which I agree with, now we're reducing), then there has to be lines drawn somewhere and as the lines are managed by UTLA then that's just the way it is. It's not perfect but I don't think managing too locally would work as well, as there isn't the capability to do it, and it would be much more confusing for some people.

Yes, there's going to be tier 2 and tier 3 next door to each other, it's unavoidable.
 
RandySavage said:
I don't agree with some of that.

The first lockdown when we got to June the difference in attitude in my eldest was very noticeable. Her nursery was only accepting kids who had parents in key working jobs, she hadn't seen any kids her age for 3 months at this point in the flesh.

I can't even begin to imagine how those kids in secondary school cope with isolation on top of everything else a teenager goes through.
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Schools actually reopened in June and there was no spike. There was in September when unis went back but they’re all back online now. But there’s been a spike in every country and all have different rules so I don’t know if we can blame it on any sector personally.
 
Statto1 said:
I'm not sure what your point is mate?

Both higher than Richmond and London though.

Gusibrough (290) is Tier 3, because it's in R&C UTLA (293) - Both of those rates are high, and in the worst 25% in the country
Nunthorpe and boro are similar, so same tier. Guisbrough west is 176, but is surrounded by worse, and still in R&C UTLA.

Richmond (169) is Tier 2, because it's in North Yorkshire UTLA (187) - Both of those rate are medium, and around 50% in the country

Obvisouly both Richmond and North Yorkshire are much better, so can warrant a low tier, if we're doing that.

If we have a tiered approach (which I agree with, now we're reducing), then there has to be lines drawn somewhere and as the lines are managed by UTLA then that's just the way it is. It's not perfect but I don't think managing too locally would work as well, as there isn't the capability to do it, and it would be much more confusing for some people.

Yes, there's going to be tier 2 and tier 3 next door to each other, it's unavoidable.
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You titled Nunthorpe and gave Middlesbrough numbers. You titled Guisborough and gave Redcar and Cleveland figures. I just provided numbers to show that even outlying parts of those borough councils had case figures close to the borough average. (I was surprised that they weren't a bit lower.)
 
bear66 said:
You titled Nunthorpe and gave Middlesbrough numbers. You titled Guisborough and gave Redcar and Cleveland figures. I just provided numbers to show that even outlying parts of those borough councils had case figures close to the borough average. (I was surprised that they weren't a bit lower.)
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Ah ok, I get you(y)

Yeah the numbers were close, within about 5%, so showed the UTLA figures as these seem to be the lockdown boundaries, which enclosed each of them.

I would have thought there would have been less cases in the more well off areas too, although thinking about it, I'm not sure why. Maybe thinking they have more space and less likely to work in jobs that have tons of public contacts, more working from home or retired with less contact etc.

Doesn't appear to be the case in the numbers mind, but thinking about it in more detail, these are 300 in 100,000 rates, for areas with probably only 20,000 people. 30 cases to 60 is the difference between a 150 and a 300 rate, that's just one extra school class, or one extra Macdonalds.

The above is a good point on why we should more look at UTLA area rates for modelling/ decisions/ tiers, rather than lower levels, the numbers are a lot more reliable and less open to variance.
 
Teesside levels are starting to drop at a rate now thankfully.

21 positives in Middlesbrough for yesterday ....................... Surely they should be reviewing Tier levels based on info that is not over a week old as they have done.
 
Tommy_Dickfingers said:
Teesside levels are starting to drop at a rate now thankfully.

21 positives in Middlesbrough for yesterday ....................... Surely they should be reviewing Tier levels based on info that is not over a week old as they have done.
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R&C are the only borough of the four slightly below 200/100000 cases per week. There are four factors which determine which tier, of which cases is one. Things are going the right way and there will be a review on 17 December, but I suspect we'll still be tier 3 into the new year and then we wait and see how Christmas has clouded the issue.
 
It seems some believe that pubs closing is to prevent people having too much to drink and then they won't follow the guidance as much.

If that is the case why isn't there a blanket ban on the sale of alcohol unless you are buying it with a substantial meal?
 
RandySavage said:
It seems some believe that pubs closing is to prevent people having too much to drink and then they won't follow the guidance as much.

If that is the case why isn't there a blanket ban on the sale of alcohol unless you are buying it with a substantial meal?
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Isn't that the case for all but Cornwall and the Isle of Wight?
 
bear66 said:
Isn't that the case for all but Cornwall and the Isle of Wight?
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That is the case.
Wales are going a step further.
Pubs and Restaurants only open 13.00 - 18.00 no alcohol sales at all, from Friday.
No point in them opening, but no support as they are not prevented from trading.
 
Anyone think we will be in tier 2 for Christmas? Wouldn’t mind going out for my dinner this year.
 
Block21 said:
Anyone think we will be in tier 2 for Christmas? Wouldn’t mind going out for my dinner this year.
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We could be lower than some Tier 2 area like Carlisle and Scarborough are today (about 170 cases per 100000), but I think they'll take the whole of the North East as a single region (which is probably why Scarborough isn't Tier 3 as it's been lumped with the rest of North Yorkshire).
 
bear66 said:
We could be lower than some Tier 2 area like Carlisle and Scarborough are today (about 170 cases per 100000), but I think they'll take the whole of the North East as a single region (which is probably why Scarborough isn't Tier 3 as it's been lumped with the rest of North Yorkshire).
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Fair enough. Hopefully the cases drop in the whole of the north east then. Would be good to get some fans in aswell over the Christmas period. Guess we will see.
 
bear66 said:
Things are going the right way across all the north east so we'll not really be held up by any one area. 24 hour shop opening may slow things a bit before Christmas.
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That’s a strange one that. Who on earth is wanting to go shopping in the middle of the night?
 
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