London: Chris Kaba

Jonny Ingbar said:
Apparently the Met firearms officers are threatening to resign from their firearms duties, given they feel that the officer involved in this case has been thrown under the bus.
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There's also a danger they won't be alble to recruit new firearms officers.

The only way to eliminate shootings is to disarm the police and revert to using the Dixon of Dock Green approach.
'Don't be fool, son. Put the gun down'.

More realistically, you will have no-go areas in UK cities, and all that entails.
 
jonny_greenings_sock said:
Even with Jean Charles de Menezes, the most egregious example of a police shooting in the UK that I can think of. When you put that in context and read about how that situation panned out - failed Tube bombing the day before, armed police on maximum high alert on public transport, mistaken identification of a guy with backpack as one of the suspects, runs from police and jumps ticket gate running towards packed train - you start to understand how the calculations they made were actually reasonable. Incredibly tragic in this case, because he truly was innocent of everything, but reasonable.
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You made some good points in your post but on this you are 100% wrong and it is because the police lied to control the narrative.

In the initial aftermath the Police released/leaked statements to the press that stated they'd challenged him outside of Stockwell tube, at which time he ran from them, jumped the barriers and ran onto the train. They pursued him & given his behaviour, heavy winter coat in the summer, backpack, and that he wasn't complying with shouted orders, they had to shoot him.

It turns out he'd been misidentified by an undercover officer as he left home, followed on the bus, he got off the bus & went to Brixton but it was closed, so got back on the bus & went to Stockwell, he picked up a Metro, paid for his travel with his Oyster, went through the barriers, walked down the escalator and at the bottom saw a tube in the platform and so ran to get on it and sat down. One undercover officer sat next to him and when firearms officers boarded the train he pinned him to the seat and de Menezes was shot, the officer let him go & he fell to floor and was shot again, in total 7 times in the head & once in the body, three other shots missed him. He was wearing a light denim jacket he didn't have a bag or rucksack with him, at no time was he given a chance to comply with Police orders because they didn't make any.

Jonny Ingbar said:
Its not the first time that the IOPC has opened a homicide investigation after a fatal shooting, but in every case its been proved to be ill conceived.

This decision is entirely motivated by their fear of public criticism and entirely predictable by the IOPC, an organisation that is wholly unfit for purpose.

I feel for the family of Chris Kaba, but a witch hunt won't bring him back.
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In the above case none of the undercover officers or three firearms officers which shot de Menezes faced any charges, and it wasn't that their behaviour was without fault.
 
Jonny Ingbar said:
Apparently the Met firearms officers are threatening to resign from their firearms duties, given they feel that the officer involved in this case has been thrown under the bus.
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Is it right that a police officer is automatically suspended after shooting someone pending an investigation? If so that's bonkers.
 
Randy said:
Is it right that a police officer is automatically suspended after shooting someone pending an investigation? If so that's bonkers.
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This one was suspended after a week after pressure by the dead man’s family.
I can’t remember the story with the Brazilian chap, it was the intell rather than the officers I think. He lived near someone connected with a big story at the time
 
Anton_Berg said:
There's also a danger they won't be alble to recruit new firearms officers.

The only way to eliminate shootings is to disarm the police and revert to using the Dixon of Dock Green approach.
'Don't be fool, son. Put the gun down'.

More realistically, you will have no-go areas in UK cities, and all that entails.
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You mean in addition to the ones we already have in Leeds, Manchester, liverpool and London?
 
Cress said:
This one was suspended after a week after pressure by the dead man’s family.
I can’t remember the story with the Brazilian chap, it was the intell rather than the officers I think. He lived near someone connected with a big story at the time
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I remember reading the Brazilian fella ran after the police asked him to stay where he was.
 
Randy said:
Is it right that a police officer is automatically suspended after shooting someone pending an investigation? If so that's bonkers.
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It's not no, but legally there has to be an investigation, as in all cases where 'the state' has taken a life.

But it's been increasingly apparent that the IOPC (an organisation that is wholly incompetent and not fit for purpose) knee jerk to the media and how these things are reported - for example one MPS firearms officer was arrested for murder. for simply doing his job.

You may also recall that the IOPC did some huge back-peddling after their response to the London Bridge attacks and the manner in which they treated the firearms officers involved - people who ran into the face of danger, when every instinct sreams to run the other way.

And I also think that the new MPS Commissioner will play everything safe and throw anyone under the bus that he needs to, in order to protect his own reputation and thereby his career.
 
Cress said:
From Wikipedia:
"7 January 1978 – 22 July 2005) was a Brazilian man killed by officers of the LondonMetropolitan Police Service at Stockwell station on the London Underground, after he was wrongly deemed to be one of the fugitives involved in the previous day's failed bombing attempts.[1] These events took place two weeks after the London bombings of 7 July 2005, in which 52 people were killed."
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17 years ago.
Not in a car being chased
Not suspected of firearms offences.
Just after a major terrorist event.

Really really relevant.
 
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