Kieran Scott on Twe12th Man Podcast.

[BoroMart]

This is because of another one of Scott's failings. He hired a manager in Wilder which was completely at odds with the model of developing young players. Wood knew he'd get no football under Wilder so he left when he showed he was good enough for being more involved in our 1st team by performing well at Swansea. Hackney would have been gone as well if Wilder was still there. That was Scott's first major decision and it was a dreadful one.

It is not Scott alone who makes that decision, in fact if anyone, it's Gibson.

VDB is not a direct replacement for Wood. We signed him a year later. VDB is a very good signing but he wasn't a direct replacement.

He is a replacement, in that he is our development defender, his role in the squad is the same, and yes there was a one year gap, but it's the same role he fulfils. RVDB is a better young defender than Wood, that's a great signing by KS. We wouldn't have both in the squad, but we have room for one, and so we should.

Bolasie was on loan and had a far better pedigree than McGree but I agree he wasn't great for us.

He was technically on loan, but he was in last 6 months of contract and could have been retained, but he was largely rubbish. So if we don't include Bolasie as on loan, then we are comparing McGree to Folarin. I'd still take McGree

Jones' development really has nothing to do with Scott so not sure how you can claim that as anything to do with him otherwise

I haven't, Scott's role is to ensure players are correctly contracted, and he has done so with Jones

otherwise you have to add in how much poorer Fry, McNair, Howson etc are than they were pre-KS.

Fry isn't poorer, he's not really kicked on though, but he's an asset under contract. McNair, yes that was a contract failure, should have sold him over January, but I suspect he has already reached agreement with someone, so not much KS can do about that. Howson has seen his contract reduce year on year in cost, so KS has got better value out of him.

Neeskens Kebano from the list who was a decent player

Loan player was he better than any of last seasons loanees? He was in and out the team.

You've missed Sam Morsy as

Did he leave before or after KS? Not sure, anyway, he's a bang average player that wouldn't suit our current team, he just happens to be embedded in a very talented ipswich side

 

[Nano]

It is not Scott alone who makes that decision, in fact if anyone, it's Gibson.

If he can't make Gibson see such an obvious mistake then he's not doing his job.

He was technically on loan, but he was in last 6 months of contract and could have been retained, but he was largely rubbish. So if we don't include Bolasie as on loan, then we are comparing McGree to Folarin. I'd still take McGree

This is just cherry picking. Assess the squad as a whole, not individual one on ones and there is no improvement. McGree should be in the CM comparison and so should Crooks because that is where we signed them to play although Crooks was here pre Scott so it's irrelevant which group he is in. Forss should be in the forwards because that is where we signed him to play. The comparisons look much less rosy when you do that because Akpom is so far ahead of the current squad that it doesn't matter that McGree is better than a player like Folarin that never played when Akpom is better than all of them. Even in the strikers Brit was way better than what we have now. Irrelevant that he was more expensive when we bought him. The option was keeping him for no fee and giving him a new contract or letting him leave and replacing him for money. We have done that and ended up with worse players that have cost us more than just keeping Brit would have done (and yes, I know he was rubbish but so is what we have now).

I haven't, Scott's role is to ensure players are correctly contracted, and he has done so with Jones

If you are giving him the credit for Jones being correctly contracted then he also gets the flak for Fry now being worth a fraction of what we could have sold him for 3 years ago as a promising youngster. The low fee we got for Tav who is now a premier league regular because we let him run his contract down, Akpom running his contract down so we couldn't afford to keep him and going for £10m after a 29 goal championship player of the season campaign, McNair running his contract down and getting no fee for him when we could have had a decent fee at some point in the last 3 years. We have had to keep Howson, who will still be on a good contract if not what it was because we have failed to sign an improved player in that time which is really poor work.

oan player was he better than any of last seasons loanees? He was in and out the team.

No, he wasn't better than last seasons loans but he was better than Folarin or whoever you've cherry-picked to compare McGree to to make your comparisons look favourable.

Did he leave before or after KS? Not sure, anyway, he's a bang average player that wouldn't suit our current team, he just happens to be embedded in a very talented ipswich side

He left at the very end of the window, just before Scott started so he's part of the squad that we had pre-Scott. He's not great but he's no worse than Lea Siliki, Mowatt, Barlaser, Luongo etc that we have had trying to fill the squad since letting him leave.

 

[viv_andersons_nana]

Great thread this. I like this ‘cherry-picking’ thing because up until last summer Chuba Akpom had been absolute dogsh*t for Boro. He had one good season and then wouldn’t sign a new deal. He was signed for £3.5m and sold in the last year of his contract for roughly £10.5m rising to £12m. Much like Spence. One good season and wants away.

I don’t blame either of them by the way, they’re playing for money, but at least the club is making good returns now. For years we brought next-to-nothing in.

And even if Scott has little or nothing to do with their development, fees, whatever, maybe acknowledging that someone inside the club is doing a decent job would be a pleasant alternative to this constant negativity and general pessimism.

We have a club that has proven track record of developing young talent, whether that’s for our team, to sell on, or to be moved onto lower-league clubs to build careers further down the pyramid, to me that’s actually quite good.

This thing about writing players off as well, often while using Akpom as a barometer for something or other while not mentioning he had been absolutely terrible for Boro before he became an instrumental player. Maybe this is what happens with some footballers. Some peak later than others.

There isn’t a single poster on here that foresaw what would happen with Chuba Akpom.

The pessimism though, dear me. You wonder why some people bother watching the Boro tbh. It sounds like they get so little pleasure out of it.

 

[Jonathan]

Hard to hold Akpom going for what he did, when he did, and "letting" his contract run down on anyone really. For most of his time here he wasn't even worth renewing his contract and was steadily heading towards being released on a free eventually, by the time he actually was worth wanting to renew his contract the ball was in his court with his stock rising as the season went on, which didn't exactly help us in that regard.

 

[DanBoro4499]

Much like Spence. One good season and wants away.

I hope you're referring to his loan spell at Forest there, as he certainly didn't have a "good season" with us

We all got excited when he first broke into the team under woody because he was quite quick and ran at people, then we very quickly realised he was *****.

Thats my take on it anyway. I hated him while he was here.

 

[Nano]

There isn’t a single poster on here that foresaw what would happen with Chuba Akpom.

Hard to hold Akpom going for what he did, when he did, and "letting" his contract run down on anyone really. For most of his time here he wasn't even worth renewing his contract and was steadily heading towards being released on a free eventually, by the time he actually was worth wanting to renew his contract the ball was in his court with his stock rising as the season went on, which didn't exactly help us in that regard.

That's true but it's not our job to do that. It is Kieran Scott and his team's job though. They see him every day. If you can't tell the difference between a player not good enough for a squad place and a 29 goal player of the season when you see them every day then maybe you are in the wrong job. Same with Spence. He might not have utilised his talents in our first team but he clearly is talented. We did well to get good money for him but Scott doesn't get the credit for that.

The pessimism though, dear me. You wonder why some people bother watching the Boro tbh. It sounds like they get so little pleasure out of it.

I'm not pessimistic. I just don't understand the people getting carried away and saying how good the recruitment team is doing and praising Scott for doing an interview when he has achieved next to nothing. The interview is just a sales pitch for himself and plenty of people have been suckered in. If and/or when we get promoted because we've got a squad capable of challenging for the automatics, and we're in a healthy financial position then I will praise Scott for the work he has done but I'm not going to be getting carried away like others and celebrating him when he's been a major reason for us not getting promoted by not providing us with a competitive squad to begin a season since he arrived.

I'm not calling for his head or even claiming he's worse than what we had before. Like the majority of his signings my verdict is "wait and see".

 

[Air Resistance]

I hope you're referring to his loan spell at Forest there, as he certainly didn't have a "good season" with us

We all got excited when he first broke into the team under woody because he was quite quick and ran at people, then we very quickly realised he was *****.

Thats my take on it anyway. I hated him while he was here.

He did have a good spell while was here, basically when Warnock was doing his man management. End of the day it probably goes down as one of the best bits of business this club has ever done.

 

[BoroMart]

If he can't make Gibson see such an obvious mistake then he's not doing his job.

gibson is his own man and always has nbeen

Assess the squad as a whole, not individual one on ones and there is no improvement.

you have to compare individuals like for like, role to role to see the nuance. Of course it's better

he CM comparison and so should Crooks because that is where we signed them to play although Crooks was here pre Scott so it's irrelevant which group he is in. Forss should be in the forwards because that is where we signed him to play.

this might be a shock, but players are signed to play multiple positions, managers have basically talked about player versatility being a bonus. As managers and systems change, players primary role changes too.

Even in the strikers Brit was way better than what we have now.

No, he really wasn't, he was rubbish

Irrelevant that he was more expensive when we bought him.

It isn't though, cost and value is very relevant in an FFP world, it's the most relevant thing for a sporting director

If you are giving him the credit for Jones being correctly contracted then he also gets the flak for Fry now being worth a fraction of what we could have sold him for 3 years ago as a promising youngster.

You can only sell when firm bids are received. No firm bid that met valution on fry

The low fee we got for Tav who is now a premier league regular because we let him run his contract down

We didn't though, his contract was running down pre-KS, he negotiiated an extra year extension to ensure we could keep him one more year and get a fee. Otherwise he would have left for free.

Akpom running his contract down so we couldn't afford to keep him and going for £10m after a 29 goal championship player of the season campaign

But he chose to let it run down, after 3 years of mediocrity. If he'd given him a contract extension prior to the 29 goal season, everyone would have been up in arms about it and throwing good money after bad.

No, he wasn't better than last seasons loans but he was better than Folarin or whoever you've cherry-picked to compare McGree to to make your comparisons look favourable.

But he wasn't our player, and McGree is. Owning 100% of Rileys contract is far better for the club than having a prem loanee who the manager doesn't really trust.

He left at the very end of the window, just before Scott started so he's part of the squad that we had pre-Scott.

so yes, he wasn't in any way anything to do with KS

 

[BoroMart]

Hard to hold Akpom going for what he did, when he did, and "letting" his contract run down on anyone really. For most of his time here he wasn't even worth renewing his contract and was steadily heading towards being released on a free eventually, by the time he actually was worth wanting to renew his contract the ball was in his court with his stock rising as the season went on, which didn't exactly help us in that regard.

exactly this, the manager turned him from a 30k/week debt and 500k a year FFP cost, into a 10m asset. It's neither a positive or a negative on KS, the die was cast on that one contractually long before he arrived. It's rediculous to blame KS for selling him, it's subjective thinking

 

[newyddion]

Getting away from the loans where we just develop players then get nothing back..
O’Brien & Greenwood are both rumoured to be loan with an option.. as is Luke Thomas even tho he was signed to cover for Bangura.

He spoke about linked players on twitter were just put out there by lazy agents wanting to get their clients names about by using eager boro fans to spread the word.. also how difficult it can make things when silly over inflated transfer fees get banded about. I do hope Juninho burger and his cat ****** partner were listening! Maybe the penny will finally drop!

 

[BoroMart]

If you can't tell the difference between a player not good enough for a squad place and a 29 goal player of the season when you see them every day then maybe you are in the wrong job. S

by that same rational nearly every scout in england failed to see what Akpom was.

Same with Spence. He might not have utilised his talents in our first team but he clearly is talented. We did well to get good money for him but Scott doesn't get the credit for that.

He saw that being a pro isn't just about football. You have technical/tactical, physical, psychological and social. For all that Djed had strengths in physical and some in technical (he did lack positional knowledge and awareness), he failed badly in psychological and social. He's a textbook case of a talented trouble maker that can have a little spell of being content and concentrating, where he looks a world beater.......but will always revert to type, be lazy, a poor trainer, and a distraction to the team. We did superbly well to get an 8 figure sum and get him out the door. 4 clubs have done that to him now, we're the only one to make a profit from him.

 

[AytonMews]

Getting away from the loans where we just develop players then get nothing back..
O’Brien & Greenwood are both rumoured to be loan with an option.. as is Luke Thomas even tho he was signed to cover for Bangura.

He spoke about linked players on twitter were just put out there by lazy agents wanting to get their clients names about by using eager boro fans to spread the word.. also how difficult it can make things when silly over inflated transfer fees get banded about. I do hope Juninho burger and his cat ****** partner were listening! Maybe the penny will finally drop!

Thomas is out of contract in the summer.

 

[BoroMart]

Thomas is out of contract in the summer.

are Leicester due a development fee depending where he goes?

 

[S7DiscoDown]

Rav will definitely be the next one that we will have to cash in on. It's mad to think he's only 19. He's so assured considering it's a new league and hardly played with his former club.

I genuinely think he will be a target of some seriously big sides. He's on a 4 year deal. So no panic to do anything. We should be looking to seriously cash in if needed.

I don't think any of us could have imagined he'd have played so much this season. It's worked out for him as other clubs clearly couldn't offer him much playing time

We've come a long way from paying 21mil for Flint / Saville and Fletcher. Then basically giving them away

I'm all for the 'model'

 

[AytonMews]

Yeah there might be compensation due actually.

Would have been a smart signing if we hadn’t signed two left backs the summer before!

 

[newyddion]

Yeah there might be compensation due actually.

Would have been a smart signing if we hadn’t signed two left backs the summer before!

Good players are good players tho..

 

[Jonathan]

RE: Rav, I have to say I love him more all the time. Hearing that he made the choice to turn down bigger moves to come here for more playing time I think speaks a lot about his character, and drive, and also his belief in himself. Would have been easy to just go to a big club, pickup a wage and sit in their U21s, so to come here and be a big part of our first team playing every week and looking better all the time just vindicates his decision really. I've no doubt he'll move on sooner rather than later, but he's just class isn't he

 

[Boro4life]

I think the Rogers sale was unexpected and he kind of admitted they never prepared targets at larger fees so they've saved the funds for the summer

 

[Muttley]

The pessimism though, dear me. You wonder why some people bother watching the Boro tbh. It sounds like they get so little pleasure out of it.

It seems to be a combination of the age old race to be first to say that a player is useless, confirmation bias and a stubborn (not to mention amusing) need to be "right".

The emergence of a whole new array of stats that can deployed serve only to add to the general fun.

 

[newyddion]