Kieran Scott’s recruitment really coming to fruition now

[Nano]

So you expect KS to recruit players at the same level as Leeds / Southampton / Leicester on a fraction of their budgets?

Everybody would be after him if he could do that!

Yes. I expect us to be able to find players good enough to compete with the best teams in the league we are in. We don't need all our players to be as good as theirs but we have none. Last season we had Akpom who was player of the year in this league. We had Archer and Ramsey who went for £15m+, we had Giles who went to the PL.

I didn't include Ipswich because we've got loads of players that could get in their squad. They are performing above their expected levels by a long way thanks to McKenna I assume. If we're just expecting Carrick to do the same then we don't need Scott. It's far easier to get promoted if you have the best players.

I don't think it's too much to ask that our specialist recruitment team could find some players good enough to compete for the autos.

Greenwood, Ayling and O'Brien are all good signings for a club at our level. O'Brien especially would walk into any championship team outside the big three.

They makes no sense. If you just buy midtable championship players (for big fees as well) then you will get midtable championship results. That level of player is what you want for your permanent signings that you can build around, not your loan players. Loan players should improve things significantly a la Archer, Ramsey and Giles.

 

[BoroMart]

Excellent. Dieng, RVDB, Latte Lath, Rogers
Good. O'Brien, Ayling
OK. Azaz (I think he will improve significantly though)
Poor. Engel
Terrible. Greenwood, Thomas
Unknown. Bangura, J. Jones

I'd add another category, Developing: Glover, Silvera, Gilbert

 

[indeedido]

That comment genuinely me chuckle indeedido. Given that you were so quick to cast judgement on our summer recruitment in September, I don't think others are getting ahead of themselves giving a more considered appraisal 6 months later.

I haven’t really needed to change my view 8 months down the line.
VDB and Rogers were cheap bets on young potential with obvious quality.
I am still sad Rogers was released so easily.
Dieng has been better than I expected.

I will no doubt watch Silvera, Engel, Barlaser, and others for the rest of their contracts and they won’t change.
I’ll be happy to eat humble pie, but there are no ingredients yet, let alone a pie.

 

[BoroMart]

Silvera for about £500k hasn’t been terrible either. Bit of a punt, first season after coming half way round the world etc

I think if Greenwood had been used as intended (backup to McGree, rather than having to start about 30+ games) we would have said decent loan signing as well. He’s made some good contributions.

Silvera was a development player, he wasn't brought in to be a starter, but he'll have a proper summer pre-season and improve again next year. He'll still be a bench option or out on loan, but he'll be better for this years experience.

Agree on Greenwood also, hte lad had started 4 league games before he came here. It's been a step too far for him. He'll be a decent championship player in 2 years.

 

[WoodallServices]

Well I guess we would have been open to signing a cheap as chips 20 goal a season striker.

I believe we were in for a few that we thought offered good value.


Just not the likes of Kieffer Moore etc

I think Scott himself said the problem in January was that every time we said no to Villa and they kept offering more money the price of the “worth a punts” kept going up to “risky gamble” territory.

 

[Ash88]

They makes no sense. If you just buy midtable championship players (for big fees as well) then you will get midtable championship results. That level of player is what you want for your permanent signings that you can build around, not your loan players. Loan players should improve things significantly a la Archer, Ramsey and Giles.

And what's the alternative? Buying premier league players while we're 9th in the championship? - We're not playing football manager. These players are too expensive or don't want to sign for us.

Archer and Ramsey signed when we were already 2nd/3rd in the league.

Lewis O'Brien (with Toffolo and Sarr) got a very average Huddersfield team into the play-offs two seasons ago - He could have been a great signing.

Equally, Archer and Ramsey could have been rubbish - they were both fairly average at their former loan clubs - Every signing is a risk, and every comparison is with the power of hindsight.

 

[AytonMews]

Yes. I expect us to be able to find players good enough to compete with the best teams in the league we are in.

God help us if we get promoted then


We can’t compete financially with the teams you mentioned though. So we’re basically looking for players that they don’t want / don’t deem good enough immediately

The teams who came down are stacked with premier league players and parachute payments. They’re not looking for players with potential to develop over a season or two. They have the financial clout to be all about the here and now.

Look at Leicester - they needed a centre mid and a winger so they spent over £20m on Winks and Mavididi. We can’t do that.

Rogers would have got in their sides, he developed quickly. By next season I expect LL and VDB to be two of the best players in the league in their positions. Plus Hackney of course.

 

[B_G]

I’m not trying to spin anything. Carrick himself has said we’re not going to sign expensive players for the sake of 2 months

Then we should have loaned one.

 

[Ash88]

Then we should have loaned one.

Pick a player, who is on loan in the championship, outside the big three teams - who we could have realistically signed and who would have fired us to the play-offs?

There isn't one. Very easy to say "we should have signed a player" - but if it was as easy as that, every club would be doing it.

 

[On The Bob]

Yes. I expect us to be able to find players good enough to compete with the best teams in the league we are in. We don't need all our players to be as good as theirs but we have none. Last season we had Akpom who was player of the year in this league. We had Archer and Ramsey who went for £15m+, we had Giles who went to the PL.


I don't think it's too much to ask that our specialist recruitment team could find some players good enough to compete for the autos.

But we are competing with those clubs?

Beat Leicester twice this season. Taken 4 points off Southampton and and Leeds was a 3-2 playing with 10 men for a chunk of the game. Could have easily picked up at least a point.

Appreciate that positionally in the league, they’re well ahead of us but our injury crisis hasn’t helped this season.

3 of the players you mention were loan players and we’ve tried to move away from those. Bringing quality players in such as the 3 you mention costs money we don’t have to spend. Are you advocating more loans which leaves us in a never ending cycle of rebuilding each season we don’t go up?

Obviously, our hands were forced with Ayling / Thomas due to long term injuries but both of those are out of contract in summer with the potential of making them permanent if we wanted (not to say I’d take either up mind).

I understand your points and in an ideal world, we all want to signing the cheap gems who will become PL class players but it’s not an easy thing to do. Especially when the big PL clubs mop up so much talent with the intention of loaning them out.

I agree with the clubs general direction on recruitment policy but it’s not going to always bring overnight success. This season has been a transitional season and with better luck with injuries, I think we’d be in the play offs.

The real success of Kieran’s Scott and the clubs plan I don’t think can be fully judged for another season or two and probably beyond. Likewise, some of the players we’ve signed this season should get better in future seasons (not all but some will).

I think we’ve got a good core to our fully fit squad. I hope this summer that we really focus on bringing in a bit more top quality. The turn over in personnel last summer was always going to make this season that bit harder but time will tell what happens for next year.

 

[AytonMews]

Pick a player, who is on loan in the championship, outside the big three teams - who we could have realistically signed and who would have fired us to the play-offs?

There isn't one. Very easy to say "we should have signed a player" - but if it was as easy as that, every club would be doing it.

Exactly.

If there was another Cameron Archer knocking about in Villa reserves we wouldn’t have said no.

 

[B_G]

Pick a player, who is on loan in the championship, outside the big three teams - who we could have realistically signed and who would have fired us to the play-offs?

There isn't one. Very easy to say "we should have signed a player" - but if it was as easy as that, every club would be doing it.

I'm not the Head of Recruitment for a professional club. If I was, I'd have found one.

Didn't have to be a Cameron Archer. A Josh Coburn would have done. There's dozens of them in premier league squads never mind across Europe.
We played without a striker for the best part of 2 months.

 

[AytonMews]

I'm not the Head of Recruitment for a professional club. If I was, I'd have found one.

 

[Laughing]

I think it's probably true to say that the focus of fans is different to that of the club.

Gibson wants a sustainable club for the longterm. If it takes 2,3 or even 4 seasons for the current strategy to lead to promotion, whilst balancing the books, that will be seen as success for the club.

Fans want to make a fist of promoting every season. It's not their money bankrolling the club.

 

[Jonny Ingbar]

It was only a few months ago he was being called a fraud and they wanted him out, thankfully our club hierarchy aren’t so fickle.

He’s done a wonderful job.

Only by the ignorant minority I think

 

[Jonny Ingbar]

I think it's probably true to say that the focus of fans is different to that of the club.

Gibson wants a sustainable club for the longterm. If it takes 2,3 or even 4 seasons for the current strategy to lead to promotion, whilst balancing the books, that will be seen as success for the club.

Fans want to make a fist of promoting every season. It's not their money bankrolling the club.

I think this is it for me, it's a long term plan and will take a number of seasons to work.

But even then there's no guarantees because not every club can achieve the same aim of promotion, but what it does do is that it makes the plan sustainable over a number of years.

Hull, for example, I think will encounter some real difficulties if they don't go up next season.

 

[Quicksilvera]

I know what you are saying tc but sometimes it's not down to the recruitment team when a transfer doesn't happen.

To be honest I am glad we didn't waste money in January on an overpriced striker.

It does seem that it can take a long time to complete signings and I don't know if that's a Boro thing or a football thing.

It’s all about the bigger picture for me, look at those at the top like Leicester and hull who may end up in trouble, look at those in the premier league who are in trouble and could come down.

Rather than have our pants pulled in January we could be competing for the best players available in the summer and not have to pay the January tax.

It’s the long game from Scott and Gibson I feel.

 

[MickaelDebevePhenomenal]

I think you've also got to consider who we didn't sign.

We wanted two strikers in the summer, and failed, so we cancelled Coburn's impending loan.

We had zero fit strikers going in to January, and failed to recruit one again.

Latte Lath looks to be thriving right now, but we went 2 months without a functioning striker and had Coburn limping around with a hernia because of poor recruitment on that front.

That's not something to praise.

Whilst I agree with the point you are making to a degree, hypothetically, had we signed a striker in Jan, on loan, that would have seriously impacted ELL's game time.

Game time that is vital in long term development, that should aid us next season.

 

[Ash88]

I'm not the Head of Recruitment for a professional club. If I was, I'd have found one.

Maybe you should send your CV into a few championship clubs? - Hardly any of them have made any decent waves in the loan market this season.

 

[TeaCider]

Whilst I agree with the point you are making to a degree, hypothetically, had we signed a striker in Jan, on loan, that would have seriously impacted ELL's game time.

Game time that is vital in long term development, that should aid us next season.

Only if Carrick saw the striker as ahead of Latte Lath in the pecking order.

Latte Lath didn't start a match till the 2nd of April after getting injured, there were 7 league matches in between the 1st of January and then where we didn't start a recognised striker at all.

That's 15% of the season.

We've subbed Latte Lath off in 5 of the 9 matches since he came back and finished the matches without a striker on the pitch.

Both players would have got plenty of game time.