Keir Starmer - FoM now a red-line

MolteniArcore said:
I'm not so sure the party is broke. They received £4.7m the last quarter and that is more than any other party. The Tories only received £2.9m over the same period (July to September).
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Better to compare Labours Q3 numbers for 2022 with previous years, rather than against the tories.

When you do that its basically the same as the party got for Q3 2017-2019. But an improvement on 2020 and 2021.

It's not an especially helpful comparison with the tories because so much of Labour's reportable income is public funds money that they're entitled to for being the official opposition - £1.8m of that £4.7m. That money would be the same irrespective of anything Starmer does or says as leader. By comparison the tories got £58k in public funds. An extra £1.75m would give them the higher total.
 
Nano said:
And they'd all rather pay lower wages. Labour (clue is in the name) should be concerned about what is best for workers, not businesses. What businesses want doesn't align with what employees need. Farmers like paying buttons and then charging their "employees" to live 6 to a shipping container for half their wages but that doesn't mean we should listen to farmers when they say they should be aloowed to import super cheap labour instead of forcing them to pay the actual wage the job should pay. Most businesses want to pay below the minimum wage, no pensions and no sickness/maternity/paternity/leave allowances but they have to comply with the regulations. What they want is irrelevant.
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I can't be bothered unpicking this. You think employer bad employee good. It's a fair bit more nuanced than that. You are applying your bias and making assumptions.
 
bumface said:
There was no wavering. The position was pretty clear to anyone with a brain. The public were too thick to understand it. Hardly surprising.
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That’s the problem with British electorate though isn’t it, there are plenty who don’t and fall for the soundbites
 
SuperStu said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1602231133365755904

:ROFLMAO: Deary me, what's he like? Honestly, I'm warming to Starmer just with how brazen he is with this stuff. The House of Lords reform stuff has barely lasted a week.

Cue 8 paragraphs from Andy explaining how the whole world is completely different to last week and it'd be mad not to constantly 180 policies... J/K 😜
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It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic. Astonishing just how many people have fallen for it. He needs focus groups to tell him what he's supposed to believe from one day to the next because he doesn't actually have any principles or beliefs of his own. He's just a turd in a suit with a crap haircut and no genitalia.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
Not much hope for health unions today with Starmer, Streeting and Kendall unable or unwilling to rule out real terms wage cuts for nurses.
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Tbf even if Starmer did rule that out, who'd care? His words mean absolutely nothing unfortunately.

bumface said:
It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic. Astonishing just how many people have fallen for it.
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Tbh I think it's funny anyway. The guy is a parody of himself. As soon as he says anything you can absolutely guarantee he'll be saying the opposite in the near future.

Have to say as well - I don't really think anyone has fallen for it. Everyone knows he's a bullsh*tter. You see it on these threads. People don't ever really defend him - they just point to Corbyn or to opinion polls and distract away from actually assessing Starmer's merits. 🤷‍♂️
 
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SuperStu said:
Tbf even if Starmer did rule that out, who'd care? His words mean absolutely nothing unfortunately.



Tbh I think it's funny anyone. The guy is a parody of himself. As soon as he says anything you can absolutely guarantee he'll be saying the opposite in the near future.

Have to say as well - I don't really think anyone has fallen for it. Everyone knows he's a bullsh*tter. You see it on these threads. People don't ever really defend him - they just point to Corbyn or to opinion polls and distract away from actually assessing Starmer's merits. 🤷‍♂️
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'Centrists' are pretty hilarious. They tie themselves in knots trying to justify it all. Win at all costs. It doesn't seem to have occurred to them that 'winning' is pointless if you've had to become The Tories to do it.
 
www.mirror.co.uk

Rachel Reeves won't say if NHS pay offer would be a penny higher under Labour

Labour today vowed to fight a new Tory crackdown on strikes 'every step of the way' - and repeal laws from 2016. But the Shadow Chancellor would not be drawn on whether striking nurses should get a better pay deal
www.mirror.co.uk www.mirror.co.uk

'But she would not say she would beat the Tory government’s offer of a 4.75% pay jump - below 11.1% inflation - if she gets into 11 Downing Street.

Asked if she would be willing to offer nurses a penny more than the Tories are, Ms Reeves told journalists: “I’ve always said Labour will not pluck numbers out of the air.

“Everything in our manifesto will be fully costed and fully funded."

The NHS pay offer was announced in July. Told she had had months to think about it, she repeated: “Well, I’m not going to pluck numbers out of the air.'

😐🤐
 
SmallTown said:
Surely centrists are just people who aren't extremists?
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I disagree. They're definitely extremists of a sort. Look at the article above with Reeves. Isn't that absolutely bizarre behaviour? To be so 100% wedded to not giving a figure for a nurses payrise?
 
Unravel_Morrison said:
It would be both politically and practically stupid to give out a figure for pay right now, when not even in power.
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Why? If she spent a bit of time crunching the numbers and came to the conclusion the government are lying about the cost of increasing pay then surely it's worth making political capital from that?

Just having a position that you can continually refer back to is better than hiding behind 'being in oppostion'.

It's why having principles is so important. It keeps you anchored.
 
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Scrote said:
Why? If she spent a bit of time crunching the mubers and came to the conclusion the government are lying about the cost of increasing pay then surely it's worth making political capital from that?

Just having a position that you can continually refer back to is better than hiding behind 'being in oppostion'.

It's why having principles is so important. It keeps you anchored.
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I think you have to recognise the Tories are playing one of their traditional ruthless games just now.

The unions are bringing the country to its knees at Christmas.

The Labour Party is the political wing of the unions.

By deduction, the Labour Party are bringing the country to its knees.

Oh and whilst millions working for private companies get next to no pension and have to work forever, these public sector mercenaries get gold plated packages and retire at 50.

You can read it all for yourself in either the Mail, the Sun, the Express, the Telegraph etc etc

Now you could justifiably say so what but whatever the leadership say on the matter it will be misconstrued to get a headline for the Tory agenda so on this occasion, ahead apparently in the polls, best to keep quiet?
 
Scrote said:
Why? If she spent a bit of time crunching the mubers and came to the conclusion the government are lying about the cost of increasing pay then surely it's worth making political capital from that?

Just having a position that you can continually refer back to is better than hiding behind 'being in oppostion'.

It's why having principles is so important. It keeps you anchored.
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I'm going to side with Reeves/Starmer here. When your opponent is digging a hole, don't climb in with them. There is little Reeves can say on policy that the press won't deliberately misconstrue. Now is the time for unconstructive criticism.
 
I mean before you even get on to the question of committing to a figure - isn't it weird to not even be able to say the offer would be a penny more than the tories?

When Reeves is getting asked if she'd go 1p over the tories she could say something like "of course we'd negotiate a better paydeal than the tories will. They're a bunch of *rseholes, deliberately trying to run down the service." That wouldn't be committing to any figure for but it shows a political position.

Imagine if you were on your way to the match with a friend, "how do you think we'll do today?"
"I'll answer that at 5 oclock. 🤖"
"Do you think Crooksy should start?"
"I'm not going to be drawn on saying which players should start. 🤖"
"Hackneys been doing well hasn't he?"
"I'll answer that in 15 years when he retires and I have all the possible data. 🤖"
 
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