JK Rowling in hot water again

[BoroMart]

"Self identify", surely that's the point, self identify doesn't mean they must be identified from a criminal case perspective. So it should have zero impact on the application of the law.

 

[FatCat]

Exactly, it would never happen.

"I did rape her but as I identify as a woman you must forget I have a penis and find me not guilty"

It's crazy. It would never happen and never will happen. It's just another excuse for the fear to be wheeled out and everyone get stuck in about something that isn't an issue.

If it’s not an issue why is it an issue ?

 

[MolteniArcore]

If it’s not an issue why is it an issue ?

Exactly.

 

[newusername]

Since, under Scottish law (English too) women can not commit rape, then there's a problem coming over the horizon.

I'm not sure that the offender can self-identify out of criminal charges, see the success of the Freeman-of-the-Land avoiding Covid regulations, Council Tax etc.

But FWIW assault by penetration carries a maximum life sentence & for the worst cases the sentence range is 13 to 19 years in prison, with a starting tariff of 15 years. Which is the same as rape.

 

[JackG]

"Self identify", surely that's the point, self identify doesn't mean they must be identified from a criminal case perspective. So it should have zero impact on the application of the law.

From my inexhaustive reading of Scots law, rape is defined as penetration with a penis without consent. Historically, those convicted have always been male but I don't think the law only applies to males, however defined. If that's the case, then gender self-identification shouldn't make a difference. I'm sure m'learned friends could argue to the contrary, for a suitably fat fee.

 

[MolteniArcore]

From my inexhaustive reading of Scots law, rape is defined as penetration with a penis without consent. Historically, those convicted have always been male but I don't think the law only applies to males, however defined. If that's the case, then gender self-identification shouldn't make a difference. I'm sure m'learned friends could argue to the contrary, for a suitably fat fee.

It's like she hasn't looked into the issue at all, just retweeted it for a reaction.

 

[r00fie1]

"Rape" has got nothing to do with a favourite author of trolls and the far right.




Here is the definition provided by the Metropolitan Police:

Rape and sexual assault​

All rape and sexual assault is serious. The terms rape and 'sexual assault' are used simply to differentiate between two types of offence. So what's the difference?

The legal definition of rape is when a person intentionally penetrates another's vagina, anus or mouth with a penis, without the other person's consent. Assault by penetration is when a person penetrates another person's vagina or anus with any part of the body other than a penis, or by using an object, without the person's consent.

The overall definition of sexual or indecent assault is an act of physical, psychological and emotional violation in the form of a sexual act, inflicted on someone without their consent. It can involve forcing or manipulating someone to witness or participate in any sexual acts.

Not all cases of sexual assault involve violence, cause physical injury or leave visible marks. Sexual assault can cause severe distress, emotional harm and injuries which can't be seen – all of which can take a long time to recover from. This is why we use the term 'assault', and treat reports just as seriously as those of violent, physical attacks.

Source: https://www.met.police.uk/advice/ad...xual-assault/what-is-rape-and-sexual-assault/

...........................................................................................................................​

If you [or anyone else] have experienced Rape / Sexual assault or Sexual Violence:

Rape Crisis England & Wales

Get help and support after rape, sexual assault, sexual abuse or any form of sexual violence. We are the charity working to end sexual violence and abuse.

rapecrisis.org.uk

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​

Analysis: Anti-trans rhetoric is rife in the British media. Little is being done to extinguish the flames

Britain faces a critical shortage of workers, leading to fuel supply constraints, a run on petrol stations and unstacked shelves in supermarkets due to lack of staff or undelivered foodstuffs. Despite this immediate crisis affecting millions of people, "gotcha" questions on trans rights have...

edition.cnn.com

Anti-trans rhetoric is rife in the British media. Little is being done to extinguish the flames​

Analysis by Tara John, CNN

Updated 0809 GMT (1609 HKT) October 9, 2021

[Extract]:

Long Read - Click on the link above for full text:

London (CNN)Britain faces a critical shortage of workers, leading to fuel supply constraints, a run on petrol stations and unstacked shelves in supermarkets due to lack of staff or undelivered foodstuffs. Despite this immediate crisis affecting millions of people, "gotcha" questions on trans rights have become a feature of this year's political party conference season, say trans advocates.

On "Today," last month, the BBC's flagship news and current affairs radio program, presenter Justin Webb asked Liberal Democrats leader Ed Davey if there should "not be spaces where biological males cannot go," in reference to trans women..........................

More than a week later, the leader of the main opposition Labour Party, Keir Starmer, was asked by the BBC's Andrew Marr if it was transphobic to say only women had a cervix. UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson was asked the same question about cervixes this week by right-leaning broadcaster GB News..........................................................


Misgendering trans people is not only harmful to their mental health, but suggesting gender does not exist and that they are the sum total of the sex they were assigned at birth scrubs the existence of trans and non-binary people, say advocates. Also, modern medicine views sex as a spectrum with many variables. Instersex people, for example, have natural variations in reproductive anatomy, chromosome patterns or other traits that may not align with typical definitions of female or male................


When it comes to trans rights "polling shows that the public isn't necessarily as hostile as the media, but the media [continues] to lead the conversation," Shon Faye, trans advocate and author of "The Transgender Issue," told CNN. According to her analysis, in 2020 the Times and the Sunday Times published "over 300 articles, almost one a day, and they were all negative." CNN has reached out to both newspapers for comment..............

​

Culture wars​

Trans-critical rhetoric has real-world impact for Britain's trans and queer communities especially at a time when UK's government has leaned into the culture wars debate in a bid to appeal to its traditional Conservative Party base and new working-class voters in northern England.
Since Johnson came to power, his Women and Equalities ministry has stalled on a number of initiatives for the country's LGBTQ community. In September 2020, Liz Truss, the Minister of Women and Equalities, said plans to make it easier for trans people to change their gender via a simplified self-declaratory system would be scrapped.........................


The attack on Trans people is part of the attack on the LGBTQ "community", which is part of a much bigger war against anti-racistm, disability rights, the homeless and basic human rights.
It is not just about gender identity - it is about the right to protest, the right to form trades unions, the right to equality, the right to dignity and respect. Dont let ourselves get distracted.

..........................................................................................................................................................
​

Some useful resources for anyone interested in the facts:

Trans people and cisgender gay men in the UK are most likely to experience violence | University of Surrey

www.surrey.ac.uk

A Surge in Transphobia Is Endangering Trans People in the U.K.

Anti-trans hate crimes rose 16% last year.

www.them.us

​

Stories - Galop the LGBT+ anti-abuse charity

Galop works with thousands of LGBT+ people experiencing abuse every year. Here are the stories of just a few of them.

galop.org.uk

...............................................................................................................
​

The truth about trans

If you read a newspaper, go on the internet, or turn on the TV, you may well have seen some shocking headlines about trans people lately. It’s fine if you don’t feel like you know very much about trans people – lots of people don’t. But it’s important to know that some myths and...

www.stonewall.org.uk

If you read a newspaper, go on the internet, or turn on the TV, you may well have seen some shocking headlines about trans people lately.

It’s fine if you don’t feel like you know very much about trans people – lots of people don’t. But it’s important to know that some myths and misconceptions are repeated consistently in the media, and this makes it harder to discover the truth when it comes to some of these issues.

We’ve developed this Q&A to answer some of the common questions about trans people, and to tackle some of those myths and misconceptions you might have seen.

LGBT in Britain - Hate Crime (2017)

One in five LGBT people have experienced a hate crime or incident because of their sexual orientation and/or gender identity in the last 12 months Two in five trans people have experienced a hate crime or incident because of their gender identity in the last 12 months ...

www.stonewall.org.uk

 

[Pinkers]

People here don't seem to be understanding the wider context. Rowling's point is not about identifying as a woman to avoid the charge of rape. It is about the fact that a man, charged as a woman, will be placed in a woman's prison if convicted, where they will have ready access to a large captive population of women to rape. These incidents have already happened and will happen again on a larger scale if the country is stupid enough to start automatically enshrining in law without due process, the views of whatever activist group is in vogue this week, which are by no means shared by wider society, or even other activist groups who claim to represent the same minorities.

These issues affect everyone, and they need to be examined properly. Self-id, which, let's be honest, has no basis in objective reality, has very serious consequences for settings such as female prisons. The levels of violence/sexual violence against women in modern society are already disgusting and unacceptable, and undermining female only spaces to accommodate men with complex mental health issues should be questioned very carefully. However, for what are I think, complex reasons, there is a totalitarian attitude growing in a portion of society that will not tolerate rational debate (ironically, because 'tolerance' is apparently so important, which is probably why Rowling is drawing the entirely germane comparison with 1984).

Men, who if they have anything about them, should care about protecting and safeguarding women and children, but are happily clapping along to whatever Stonewall feels is reality this week because Harry Kane has to wear a rainbow armband and they don't want to be 'phobic', should have a little think for themselves, and perhaps learn what a lot of stalwarts of gay rights like the LGB alliance, actually think about Stonewall's trans-rights agenda. Which is that it is highly likely to lead to many gay/lesbian people taking the ill-advised route of irreversible hormone/surgery 'treatments' (often at irresponsibly young ages) that they will later regret (assuming they don't just commit suicide first of course because 'transitioning' is so exceptionally bad for mental health) and therefore a big step backwards.

A lot of people are afraid to speak out because of the vicious behaviour of activists. They don't seem like people who care for others or are averse to violence. Rather, they seem to endorse and threaten violence as a matter of course, as the constant threats of rape and violence against women like Rowling (and even more despicably their children) prove. Are we quite sure whatever they say should be the law, without debate?

Rowling has previously said that she feels she has a responsibility to speak out for others because of her position. She is entitled to do so. It's all too easy to just go along with whatever we think the prevailing view is, but it's also how societies end up like 1930s Germany. Just because one section of society wants something is not a reason to ignore everything else and give it to them. Especially not when that group constantly threatens (and indeed perpetrates) intimidation and violence against anyone who questions their arguments.

 

[r00fie1]

People here don't seem to be understanding the wider context. Rowling's point is not about identifying as a woman to avoid the charge of rape. It is about the fact that a man, charged as a woman, will be placed in a woman's prison if convicted, where they will have ready access to a large captive population of women to rape. These incidents have already happened and will happen again on a larger scale if the country is stupid enough to start automatically enshrining in law without due process, the views of whatever activist group is in vogue this week, which are by no means shared by wider society, or even other activist groups who claim to represent the same minorities.

These issues affect everyone, and they need to be examined properly. Self-id, which, let's be honest, has no basis in objective reality, has very serious consequences for settings such as female prisons. The levels of violence/sexual violence against women in modern society are already disgusting and unacceptable, and undermining female only spaces to accommodate men with complex mental health issues should be questioned very carefully. However, for what are I think, complex reasons, there is a totalitarian attitude growing in a portion of society that will not tolerate rational debate (ironically, because 'tolerance' is apparently so important, which is probably why Rowling is drawing the entirely germane comparison with 1984).

Men, who if they have anything about them, should care about protecting and safeguarding women and children, but are happily clapping along to whatever Stonewall feels is reality this week because Harry Kane has to wear a rainbow armband and they don't want to be 'phobic', should have a little think for themselves, and perhaps learn what a lot of stalwarts of gay rights like the LGB alliance, actually think about Stonewall's trans-rights agenda. Which is that it is highly likely to lead to many gay/lesbian people taking the ill-advised route of irreversible hormone/surgery 'treatments' (often at irresponsibly young ages) that they will later regret (assuming they don't just commit suicide first of course because 'transitioning' is so exceptionally bad for mental health) and therefore a big step backwards.

A lot of people are afraid to speak out because of the vicious behaviour of activists. They don't seem like people who care for others or are averse to violence. Rather, they seem to endorse and threaten violence as a matter of course, as the constant threats of rape and violence against women like Rowling (and even more despicably their children) prove. Are we quite sure whatever they say should be the law, without debate?

Rowling has previously said that she feels she has a responsibility to speak out for others because of her position. She is entitled to do so. It's all too easy to just go along with whatever we think the prevailing view is, but it's also how societies end up like 1930s Germany. Just because one section of society wants something is not a reason to ignore everything else and give it to them. Especially not when that group constantly threatens (and indeed perpetrates) intimidation and violence against anyone who questions their arguments.

No.

 

[r00fie1]

Teeside SARC – SARC

www.sarcteesside.co.uk

 

[Millbrook]

Excellent post Pinkers. There appears to be an increasing numbers of topics where seeking to debate the merits or otherwise of the issue gets you labeled as discriminatory.

 

[r00fie1]

Exactly. And she's serving no purpose tweeting that other to get a reaction.

And fanning the flames of prejudice, ignorance and violence......

 

[BoroMart]

People here don't seem to be understanding the wider context. Rowling's point is not about identifying as a woman to avoid the charge of rape. It is about the fact that a man, charged as a woman, will be placed in a woman's prison if convicted, where they will have ready access to a large captive population of women to rape.

If that is her point then why is she quoting Orwell? It's a really badly packaged message

 

[SuperStu]

Self-id, which, let's be honest, has no basis in objective reality

Can't help yourself. That little line completely invalidates anything else in your post. Makes it clear your opinion is compromised by bigotry.

 

[newusername]

People here don't seem to be understanding the wider context. Rowling's point is not about identifying as a woman to avoid the charge of rape. It is about the fact that a man, charged as a woman, will be placed in a woman's prison if convicted, where they will have ready access to a large captive population of women to rape. These incidents have already happened and will happen again on a larger scale if the country is stupid enough to start automatically enshrining in law without due process, the views of whatever activist group is in vogue this week, which are by no means shared by wider society, or even other activist groups who claim to represent the same minorities.

These issues affect everyone, and they need to be examined properly. Self-id, which, let's be honest, has no basis in objective reality, has very serious consequences for settings such as female prisons. The levels of violence/sexual violence against women in modern society are already disgusting and unacceptable, and undermining female only spaces to accommodate men with complex mental health issues should be questioned very carefully. However, for what are I think, complex reasons, there is a totalitarian attitude growing in a portion of society that will not tolerate rational debate (ironically, because 'tolerance' is apparently so important, which is probably why Rowling is drawing the entirely germane comparison with 1984).

Men, who if they have anything about them, should care about protecting and safeguarding women and children, but are happily clapping along to whatever Stonewall feels is reality this week because Harry Kane has to wear a rainbow armband and they don't want to be 'phobic', should have a little think for themselves, and perhaps learn what a lot of stalwarts of gay rights like the LGB alliance, actually think about Stonewall's trans-rights agenda. Which is that it is highly likely to lead to many gay/lesbian people taking the ill-advised route of irreversible hormone/surgery 'treatments' (often at irresponsibly young ages) that they will later regret (assuming they don't just commit suicide first of course because 'transitioning' is so exceptionally bad for mental health) and therefore a big step backwards.

A lot of people are afraid to speak out because of the vicious behaviour of activists. They don't seem like people who care for others or are averse to violence. Rather, they seem to endorse and threaten violence as a matter of course, as the constant threats of rape and violence against women like Rowling (and even more despicably their children) prove. Are we quite sure whatever they say should be the law, without debate?

Rowling has previously said that she feels she has a responsibility to speak out for others because of her position. She is entitled to do so. It's all too easy to just go along with whatever we think the prevailing view is, but it's also how societies end up like 1930s Germany. Just because one section of society wants something is not a reason to ignore everything else and give it to them. Especially not when that group constantly threatens (and indeed perpetrates) intimidation and violence against anyone who questions their arguments.

Between 2016 & 2019 there were seven sexual assaults in female prisons apparently perpetrated by trans women. 7 too many for sure but the amount air time this is getting is incredible.
It is a classic moral panic.

 

[r00fie1]

Meanwhile:

Former Conservative MP Andrew Griffiths raped his wife, court finds

Kate Griffiths, who succeeded her husband, supported journalists’ request to remove restriction on naming them

www.theguardian.com

Former Conservative MP Andrew Griffiths raped his wife, court finds​

Kate Griffiths, who succeeded her husband, supported journalists’ request to remove restriction on naming them

The disgraced former Conservative minister Andrew Griffiths raped his wife when she was asleep and subjected her to coercive control, a high court judge has concluded.

The judgment, published on Friday, detailed alleged domestic abuse by Griffiths towards his wife, Kate, who is now a serving Conservative MP, during their marriage.

It also included pressing her into sex, physically assaulting and verbally abusing her, the judge found. Andrew Griffiths denied allegations made by his ex-wife and “adamantly denied” rape.

He resigned from the government as business minister in July 2018 for sending 2,000 sexually explicit messages to constituents. In November 2019, he stepped down as an MP saying he would back his wife to succeed him. Kate Griffiths, who left him when the story broke, was subsequently elected as Tory MP for the seat of Burton in East Staffordshire.

Kate Griffiths outside the Royal Courts of Justice in London. Photograph: Aaron Chown/PA
The allegations against her estranged husband were made in a case that began as an application by Andrew Griffiths in 2019, arguing he should be allowed to spend time with a child at the centre of the case.

Kate Griffiths subsequently supported an application by two journalists – Tortoise Media’s Louise Tickle and PA Media’s Brian Farmer – for the judgment to be published, including the names of her and her ex-husband. Andrew Griffiths had opposed publication of the judgment dating from November last year but his arguments were rejected by the high court and then the court of appeal, where judges referred to “the mother’s right to tell her story”.

As the case was heard in a civil court, the findings of Judge Elizabeth Williscroft were made on the lower standard of proof of the balance of probabilities rather than the criminal standard of beyond reasonable doubt.

As well as Andrew Griffiths raping his wife while she slept “on a number of occasions”, Williscroft found that he had used “coercive and controlling behaviour” to ensure his wife submitted to his sexual demands, which included submissive behaviour, throughout their relationship.



He was also found to have hit her, pushed her into a wall, put his hands around her neck, spat at her and thrown a tray of food over her. He employed threats to make her homeless or leave her without money. Griffiths was also found to have used violence on multiple occasions towards a female relative of his who was not named.

Kate Griffiths welcomed the decision as “a positive step forward in a legal battle that has taken a huge emotional and financial toll on my family.

“I supported publication of the family court’s findings – and waived my right to anonymity – because I recognise the unique position I am in to campaign to improve the outcomes of cases such as this, for those who endure domestic violence, and the actions taken to protect the children involved.”

Neither she nor her lawyer commented on whether any criminal complaint has been or will be made.

Kate Griffiths gave evidence behind a screen during the fact-finding trial. The judge said she had found her to be “a fair witness” who told her account without embellishment. By contrast, Williscroft said, her estranged husband was, in court, “like a politician responding to debate or questioning”. She also said that he had constantly attempted to diminish his estranged wife by describing her as exaggerated and theatrical in court and in his evidence.

In court, Andrew Griffiths detailed childhood events he said had caused a breakdown, echoing claims he made after the sexual text messages emerged. But Williscroft said they could “not explain or excuse” his behaviour towards his wife or others.

The judge said: “Kate Griffiths is not unusual in being in love with a man and living with behaviour that she says she found humiliating and demeaning … It seems to me that it never crossed Andrew Griffiths’s mind that she would not do what he liked her to do.”

She said he still did not appear to recognise that his behaviour was abusive, despite his counsel’s claims on his behalf to the contrary.

Other MPs praised Kate Griffiths with Rosie Duffield, herself a domestic abuse survivor, saying: “No words to describe my respect for this incredibly strong woman.”

Jess Phillips said simply: “Kate Griffiths is a hero.”

Andrew Griffiths said he was “deeply disappointed” by the decision to publish the judgment, adding that he “strongly denied the allegations put to me”.

 

[r00fie1]

Metropolitan Police officer accused of rape faces 13 more charges

More women have come forward since the investigation into PC David Carrick started, police said.

www.bbc.co.uk

Metropolitan Police officer accused of rape faces 13 more charges​

A Metropolitan Police officer accused of raping a woman he met on Tinder is facing a further 13 charges.
PC David Carrick, 46, of Stevenage, Hertfordshire, appeared in court last month on the initial charge.

He told St Albans Magistrates' Court he "emphatically denies" attacking a woman.

Police said since the start of the investigation a further three women have now come forward and made similar complaints against him.
Mr Carrick, is due at Westminster Magistrates' Court on Friday in relation to these new charges.

He is currently remanded in custody and will appear at St Albans Crown Court on 3 December for a hearing relating to all alleged offences.

He has now been charged with three counts of rape, three counts of sexual assault, two counts of sexual assault by penetration, two counts of coercive and controlling behaviour, one count of false imprisonment, one count of attempted sexual assault by penetration, and one count of causing a person to engage in sexual activity without consent
.
The charges relate to a period between 2017 and 2020, police said.

Scotland Yard said Mr Carrick was based within the Met's Parliamentary and Diplomatic Protection Command.

This is the same unit where the murderer of Sarah Everard, Wayne Couzens, had worked.

The Met said officers from its Directorate of Professional Standards continue to liaise with and support Hertfordshire Police with the investigation.
It added Mr Carrick remained suspended from duty and a referral had been made to the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC).

 

[r00fie1]

Between 2016 & 2019 there were seven sexual assaults in female prisons apparently perpetrated by trans women. 7 too many for sure but the amount air time this is getting is incredible.
It is a classic moral panic.

Its a calculated decision to provoke outrage and hatred - driven by an ideological [anti-democratic / authoritarian] agenda

 

[Duffman]

Rowling highlights the absurdity that a person (identifying at that time as a man) arrested for rape can seek to identify as a woman and be assigned to a woman's jail where they are able to carry out further attacks. It is political correctness gone mad and we are bullied and harassed by the so called enlightened that this is progressive and we are in the dark ages. This is Rowlings point in a nutshell

 

[NZBoro1]

Rowling highlights the absurdity that a person (identifying at that time as a man) arrested for rape can seek to identify as a woman and be assigned to a woman's jail where they are able to carry out further attacks. It is political correctness gone mad and we are bullied and harassed by the so called enlightened that this is progressive and we are in the dark ages. This is Rowlings point in a nutshell

Then we need to come up with a solution, because speaking as a father of a trans female daughter, I sure as hell wouldn't want her to be put I to a make prison.

Instead of righteousness indignation on both sides, let'scome up with a solution. c