Israeli hostages taken in Gaza

The whole thing is ****ed up. I would say that Hamas are not the only terrorist organization involved here. One mans terrorist is anothers freedom fighter. Israel are a long way from blameless here.

The people are the currency that Hamas and Israel trade in. **** the pair of them.
 
newusername said:
I'm not so sure.


View attachment 65042

Israel ended their occupation of Gaza in 2005.

Some organisations (Amnesty International for example) consider all new territory under Israel control since 1967 to be occupied.

Obviously there are issues with the map below but saying "end the occupation" is a massive red flag.
If I, someone who is generally supportive of Corbyn, see that then I'm pretty sure his 'friends' in the media are not going to miss it.
View attachment 65041
Click to expand...

Gaza is only a small part of Palestine.

The West Bank is where the occupation is, and your own graphic shows how much of the internationally recognised Palestinian land is occupied by Israel right now.
 
TeaCider said:
Gaza is only a small part of Palestine.

The West Bank is where the occupation is, and your own graphic shows how much of the internationally recognised Palestinian land is occupied by Israel right now.
Click to expand...
The simple map is why we need to be careful as it is propaganda.

1696948014892.jpeg
1946 - Wasn't Palestine but the British mandate. Prior to this it was part of the Ottoman empire & so the land was 'owned' by Ottoman Caliph. However the map treats all significant tracts of “non-Jewish” land as Palestinian by default, even though Palestinian Arabs had little or no ownership, control or presence there.
1947 - Palestinians rejected the UN plan and it was just plan, it didn't reflect the situation on the ground.
1967 - Green areas were controlled by Jordan & Egypt not a single Palestinian authority.

Israelies would say this is a more accurate map of Palestinian political control (also propaganda btw):
1696948653461.jpeg

I'm just saying the phrase "end the occupation" is fraught with double meaning and certain sections will interpret it as they see fit to score points against him.
 
newusername said:
The simple map is why we need to be careful as it is propaganda.

View attachment 65045
1946 - Wasn't Palestine but the British mandate. Prior to this it was part of the Ottoman empire & so the land was 'owned' by Ottoman Caliph. However the map treats all significant tracts of “non-Jewish” land as Palestinian by default, even though Palestinian Arabs had little or no ownership, control or presence there.
1947 - Palestinians rejected the UN plan
1967 - Green areas were controlled by Jordan & Egypt not a single Palestinian authority.

Israelies would say this is a more accurate map of Palestinian political control (also propaganda btw):
View attachment 65046
Click to expand...

The only two pieces on those graphics that are relevant is 1967 and 2010.

The green on 1967 are the borders claimed by the State of Palestine, and recognised by many country, and the white is the internationally recognised borders of Israel.

Even Israel doesn't officially consider anything within that green as part of its own territory, with the exception of East Jerusalem.

Almost all of the territory within that green is controlled and occupied by Israel though, with significant border sections illegally settled.
Palestinian control is heavily limited and deliberately isolated in to dozens of enclaves.
 
A broader conflict here would suit both Iran and Russia very nicely and they will do all that they can to achieve it.
 
Reports now emerging of children and babies with hands tied behind their backs, shot in the head and then beheaded by Hamas.

Absolutely stomach churning, I hope the perpetrators rot in hell for eternity.
 
WeeGord said:
Reports now emerging of children and babies with hands tied behind their backs, shot in the head and then beheaded by Hamas.

Absolutely stomach churning, I hope the perpetrators rot in hell for eternity.
Click to expand...
Israeli army saying they have no confirmation of this
 
swordtrombonefish said:
Some conflate the Iran deal with the attack by Hamas but the US says no funds have yet been spent...
Loan deal?
Click to expand...
I haven’t been to Iran or Palestine, nor am I involved in arms running, so I can only take my information from sources I trust. These tell me Hamas and Hezbollah are funded by Iran. It seems plausible.
 
The Ruthsayer said:
I haven’t been to Iran or Palestine, nor am I involved in arms running, so I can only take my information from sources I trust. These tell me Hamas and Hezbollah are funded by Iran. It seems plausible.
Click to expand...
www.reuters.com

Iran prisoner swap for $6 billion in spotlight after Hamas attacks Israel

The Palestinian group Hamas's surprise assault on Israel Saturday and Israel's retaliation have killed more than 1,100 people and focused attention on the Iran-backed Islamist group.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

Just a report - I have no reason to believe any of it - I'm keeping an open mind
 
The_Unicorn said:
Israeli army saying they have no confirmation of this
Click to expand...
TeaCider said:
www.bbc.co.uk

Inside Kfar Aza where Hamas militants killed families in their homes

In Kfar Aza, Israeli soldiers tell the BBC they have uncovered a massacre of civilians, including children and babies.
www.bbc.co.uk

It's Israeli soldiers that are saying it happened.
Click to expand...

This is such a horrendous part of it isn't it? It's just impossible to know whats true and what isn't.

Children do get killed, and rape does get used as a weapon in wars - so its all plausible. But at the same time it does seem like all the claims that have come out over the last few days are almost cartoonishly evil.

If the claims about beheading babies turn out to be propaganda then that is honestly deranged.
 
Isn't it interesting how the Palestine situation is like the Wild West with the Palestinians as the Red Indians and the Israelis the White settlers and US Army.

Another interesting organisation was the one below - widely recognised as responsible for the first modern day terrorist act - the King David Hotel bombing - celebrated in 2006 in Israel, according to Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun
 
SuperStu said:
This is such a horrendous part of it isn't it? It's just impossible to know whats true and what isn't.

Children do get killed, and rape does get used as a weapon in wars - so its all plausible. But at the same time it does seem like all the claims that have come out over the last few days are almost cartoonishly evil.

If the claims about beheading babies turn out to be propaganda then that is honestly deranged.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what to believe on that specific claim, I'd actually misread the posts I was responding to, I thought it was about there being beheadings in general and the fact that babies had been murdered in their homes.
Both of which have definitely happened.

It's horrific enough murdering children without somebody going further.
 
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