ThePrisoner
Well-known member
So many people still don't get this!
They think the EU is picking on poor old Blighty. Massive lack of understanding.
Is Brexit a major cause of the current food shortgages in the UK?
- Thread starter Redwurzel
- Start date
They think the EU is picking on poor old Blighty. Massive lack of understanding.
SmallTown
Well-known member
I imagine some DO get it. They are just so deep in the cult of Brexit and it’s lies, when they start blaming the EU for our failings these people just run with it. It’s beyond tragic so many can be so damn gullible
BobUpnDown
Well-known member
I think this one is all down to energy costs & produces not running their greenhouses over winter as costs are just ridiculous - Gov's happy to let the energy companies cash in & the food run out: let the people eat Turnips... said the Tory Turnip.
We've had Brexit a good while now & no shortage - since the energy prices have hit: shotrage.
We've had Brexit a good while now & no shortage - since the energy prices have hit: shotrage.
NYboro
Well-known member
Yes there are shortages and, thanks to Brexit, we are the ones doing without.
SmallTown
Well-known member
You're not understanding the exacerbated bit are you? That's the frustration with the brexit defence. they can ignore it's effects because of other causes.
Redwurzel
Well-known member
Some good points there Nano and agree with you on most.
Where I did not was on VCRs the French price was more than slightly higher at least 50% higher. I worked for Philips a Dutch manufacturer and the French Government found it harder to block imports from Holland, because of EEC law. Thomson was a major French VCR manufacturer then, over time they moved out of consumer electronics and into defence electronics where they have much more protection. Where the EU did help was it allowed goods to travel between member states without excessive paperwork for every border crossing, EU states had to trust each other more. It also introduce common safety standards, so goods were not blocked by individual countries because they did not meet say German standards even though they met the standards fo ever other country in Europe. In my example it was for a £10 Jug Kettle. I also think the EU has been good for the former communist areas of the Eastern Europe, by giving them easy access to Western Europe and help them level up economically.
I don't sit comfortably with protected markets (certainly for consumer products) but it is happening more and more certainly subsidised markets look at all the new privately Battery factories and semi conductor plants in the USA financed primarily by the US Government, because they wanted to avoid Far Eastern suppliers primarily for political and security reasons.
Where I did not was on VCRs the French price was more than slightly higher at least 50% higher. I worked for Philips a Dutch manufacturer and the French Government found it harder to block imports from Holland, because of EEC law. Thomson was a major French VCR manufacturer then, over time they moved out of consumer electronics and into defence electronics where they have much more protection. Where the EU did help was it allowed goods to travel between member states without excessive paperwork for every border crossing, EU states had to trust each other more. It also introduce common safety standards, so goods were not blocked by individual countries because they did not meet say German standards even though they met the standards fo ever other country in Europe. In my example it was for a £10 Jug Kettle. I also think the EU has been good for the former communist areas of the Eastern Europe, by giving them easy access to Western Europe and help them level up economically.
I don't sit comfortably with protected markets (certainly for consumer products) but it is happening more and more certainly subsidised markets look at all the new privately Battery factories and semi conductor plants in the USA financed primarily by the US Government, because they wanted to avoid Far Eastern suppliers primarily for political and security reasons.
Scrote
Well-known member
To have common standards you need a level of protectionism.
And the EU has tended, over time, to raise the minimum standards.
Surely this is a good thing for consumers?
Unravel_Morrison
Well-known member
Protected markets are the norm. The EU use of a single market and customs union was a move to benefit member states. No one is really naive enough to think that the EU isn't protectionist, but they were actively working with and/or against other protected markets whether they be single or multiple countries for the benefit of member states and their citizens. The EU isn't a 'thing'. It's composed of member countries all with their own interests, which is to be expected. You seem to be fine with national protectionism but not international.
Redwurzel
Well-known member
There can be common standards without needing a specifc political and social union. A single Market for example would do the same.
Standards for consumer products have been rising all around the World, not just in the EU Zone. I agree having well recognised standards does help larger manufacturers so if gain approval for one market its accepted in another etc. Approval in the US market for a new drug is often key to approval in other international markets. Standards are not unique to the EU Zone. The other thing is the importance of standards will vary depending on the nature of the good. Scottish shell fish is regarded as some of the best in the World, but all Scottish suppliers have suffered from long delays at customs in EU member states, because we are told EU consumers need protection checks. The delays have been so long that in some cases the goods have perished. I understand some checks on paperwork are required but why does it take 4 or 5 days? The EU consumer loses out as well as the Scottish supplier because of the excessive time taken in customs.
Minimum standards are good for consumers - agreed.
Protectionism can occur without reference to standards - in the VCR example the protectionism was the long delays to get goods through customs because of the lack of customs staff at a small import customs office to the supply of of potnentlly several million VCRs a year. The Japanese VCRs if anything were a higher standard than the European ones. (Sony, Panasonic etc). This example of protectionism I dislike it was blatant trade barrier dressed up as free trade.
Redwurzel
Well-known member
UM - I used to teach a module on International Trade and I knew from this International trade was increasing as a trend all around the World year after year following WW2. An example was China joining the World Trade Organisation and opening its markets up more to non Chinese goods. Posters on here I am sure would agree its become much more common over the last 30 years to see Chinese made goods in the UK. In the last 3 years it may have changed though with regards trade.
I personally would accept the UK in the Single Market, there are other major trade blocs around the World that work as Single economc markets, but that is different to the EU (for me). I fully understand the EU compromises of different Member States. However as you know doubt know there is also central functions to the EU, such as Euro currency, European Bank managing the economies of the Euro Zone, EU Commission (law makers and sometimes enforcers) EU Parliament (debating forum). The EU appears to becoming a tighter Federal syle collection of Member States. This is a observation not a judgemental statement.
Not sure where your last sentence has come from "You seem fine with national protectionism, but not international" My outlook could be a little niave, but as a general rule I believe in free markets full stop. That means no tariffs, quotas, non tariff barriers (where common standards are met) for the UK and other nations. I do realise there can be difficulties where Industries are receiving state subsidies (such as cheap energy, farming subidies) and use these sell at below cost. Back in 2015 Chinese Steel was being sold at below the cost ot raw materials with the support of the Chinese Government (despite China being in the WTO) which made life impossible in many markets for UK producers who were not getting subsisided by the UK Government at the time. A Single Market is a a bit of a compromise it doesn't mean full free trade on an international scale, so that is not consistent with my outlook, but a compromise and a bit of recognising the World we live in. We all are always learning too.
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Unravel_Morrison
Well-known member
I'm sorry but it doesn't sound like you do recognise the world we live in if you believe in free markets full stop.
Redwurzel
Well-known member
Free markets is my starting point, in part because of the theory of comparative advantage - it states the whole World does best if countries concentrate on what they do best and use the revenue from this to buy goods and services they don't do so well with. An example would be for the UK to sell financial services all around the world, but import tomatoes where it does not have a comparative advantage.
Free markets also tend to result in fewer wars. Trade disputes in the 1930s helped contribute to Miltary conflicts.
Of couse not everything is black and white and regional free markets is better than 1930s style protectionism.
Free markets also tend to result in fewer wars. Trade disputes in the 1930s helped contribute to Miltary conflicts.
Of couse not everything is black and white and regional free markets is better than 1930s style protectionism.
MolteniArcore
Well-known member
It's a shame that the Tories believe in deregulation which tends to result in lower standards, not higher standards. This would in turn cause trade barriers with the EU. No wonder they want increased checks with this cabal in charge of the UK. There is no trust.
Unravel_Morrison
Well-known member
I think the more grown up Tories realise that reality has bitten now. They've put it off for as long as possible but they're probably going to be out of power in 2 years and need to ensure they don't destroy what's left of their reputation.
The reality is that there are 3 economic superpowers and they each have slightly different roles. China aren't going to stop using CE regulations for their electronic goods any time soon, even if they wanted to. We'll have our silly new regulations working parallel to the current ones that businesses are used to (even if they don't like them). We'll probably have to change our regulations in line with whatever the EU moving forward does. It's an absolute shambles.
They wanted Brexit so desperately but didn't care enough to do it properly. That's what will sink them eventually.