Investors pull out of Everton talks

Everton are not too big to go down, never said they were. I just don’t seem them, in my personal opinion, dropping down to League 1 or 2, or being anything like Portsmouth. Just my prediction. Even if they hit financial hard times.

I would quite like to see them fail too, I just can’t see them outside the top 2 tiers, even like Leeds or Forest. Anyone who disagrees, feel free to hoof if and when it happens.

I would say they are currently the 7th best supported English club, both domestically and around the world. Hence, why I said they were a strong brand.
 
I cannot think of a single measure by which it could be argued that Leeds are a bigger club than, or even as big, as Everton.

Supporter base (global and domestic), historical success (and even by the measure of more recent success of which neither club is excelling at), historical European success, recent European qualification, cumulative top flight finishes, PL finishes/time spent in the PL and top flight, Everton come out on top on all of them.

You’d have to be really scraping the barrel to claim it’s because Leeds once got to a CL semi-final (and bankrupted themselves in doing so).

I’m not claiming Everton are a big club but they are easily bigger than Leeds. Even the Revie and Kendall eras are equal in terms of trophy yield. Take away the Revie era and Leeds have almost nothing.
 
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There's no such thing as a big club. Only fans of teams like Everton, Leeds, Villa, Newcastle, Forest, West Ham and Spurs etc. bang on about being big clubs because they don't win trophies. There is no way to measure bigness. You can rank specific things but they will all argue over which thing should get priority but none of it matters because they all win as much as small clubs like Boro, Wigan and Portsmouth. You get nothing for being "big".
 
Nano said:
There's no such thing as a big club. Only fans of teams like Everton, Leeds, Villa, Newcastle, Forest, West Ham and Spurs etc. bang on about being big clubs because they don't win trophies. There is no way to measure bigness. You can rank specific things but they will all argue over which thing should get priority but none of it matters because they all win as much as small clubs like Boro, Wigan and Portsmouth. You get nothing for being "big".
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Ok. So Real Madrid aren’t a “big club”? They can’t be, if there is no such thing.

Of course people can debate the validity of such claims, but as I say, I don’t think there is a single measure by which it can be debated that Leeds are bigger than Everton. And certainly not Portsmouth, which was how this all started.
 
atypical_boro said:
Ok. So Real Madrid aren’t a “big club”? They can’t be, if there is no such thing.

Of course people can debate the validity of such claims, but as I say, I don’t think there is a single measure by which it can be debated that Leeds are bigger than Everton. And certainly not Portsmouth, which was how this all started.
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They win trophies. Their success is easily measured.
 
I have noticed that the fans of clubs that win stuff do not go on about how 'big' they are.

The fans of the also rans like Spurs and Villa, and Everton always bang on about how massive they are, small dog/man syndrome for me.
 
Colgates_shaving_foam said:
I have noticed that the fans of clubs that win stuff do not go on about how 'big' they are.

The fans of the also rans like Spurs and Villa, and Everton always bang on about how massive they are, small dog/man syndrome for me.
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I think this is true, but my point is that since it is easily measurable that Real Madrid is a big club, it is also quite easily measurable that Everton are bigger than Leeds and certainly Pompey. And that Stoke are bigger than Nuneaton Borough, as another example. Sometimes it’s just absolutely clear.
 
atypical_boro said:
I think this is true, but my point is that since it is easily measurable that Real Madrid is a big club, it is also quite easily measurable that Everton are bigger than Leeds and certainly Pompey. And that Stoke are bigger than Nuneaton Borough, as another example. Sometimes it’s just absolutely clear.
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It is not at all clear that Everton are bigger than Leeds, Newcastle, Villa or Spurs to me.

I can't believe I'm doing this as it proves little, but:

Top flight titles since WW2 Everton 4, Leeds 3, Villa 1, Newcastle 0, Spurs 2.
Top flight Runners Up since WW2 Everton 1, Leeds 5, Villa 2, Newcastle 2, Spurs 4.
FA Cup Winners since WW2 Everton 3, Leeds 1, Villa 1, Newcastle 3, Spurs 6.
FA Cup Runners Up Everton 5, Leeds 3, Villa 2, Newcastle 3, Spurs 1.
League Cup Winners Everton 0, Leeds 1, Villa 5, Newcastle 0, Spurs 4
League Cup Runners Up, Everton 2, Leeds 1, Villa 4, Newcastle 2, Spurs 5

European Cup/Champions League Winners - Villa 1
European Cup/CL Runners Up Everton 0, Leeds 1, Villa 0, Newcastle 0, Spurs 1
Other European Trophy Winners - Everton 1, Leeds 2, Villa 1, Newcastle 1, Spurs 3
Other Euro Runners Up - Everton 0, Leeds 3, Villa 0, Newcastle 0, Spurs 1
Villa also Super Cup Winners in 82.

Seasons outside top flight since WW2 Everton 0, Leeds 38, Villa 13, Newcastle 18, Spurs 5
Seasons in top 4 since WW2 Everton 15, Leeds 15, Villa 5, Newcastle 8, Spurs 23

Spurs have the biggest home ground and crowd.
Newcastle are 2nd to that.
Villa are 3rd
Everton 4th
Leeds 5th. Leeds with 16k waiting list for season tickets.

Global fan base is almost impossible to measure.

Newcastle dominate their large catchment area.
Villa are easily biggest club in a huge catchment with weak competition.
Leeds dominate a huge catchment area.
Spurs are a major club in a Global City.
Everton are a distant second club in a large catchment surrounded by many clubs including nearby Manchester giants.

Everton historically were one of the big 5 going back a very long time.
Now they are not part of the big 6 and in my opinion have less potential than Aston Villa, Newcastle, West Ham and Leeds.

Everton are the past; Villa, Newcastle, West Ham, Leeds are sadly the future.
I think even Evertonians realise this.
 
I really can’t believe I (of all people) am saying this, but to suggest Everton are a bigger club than Leeds defies the laws of common sense.

I have an ex colleague who supports The Toffees and I remain in touch with, he is genuinely worried that after this season, their next derby will more likely be with Tranmere Rovers than Liverpool.

Of course it is possible that some rich Billionaire may come along and save them, it is equally possible that someone might decide they are too indebted to throw yet more money at. If they were to drop, I would think you’d see an exodus of the rats fleeing a sinking ship on a similar scale to current MP’s fleeing the Tory party before the next election.
 
coluka said:
I really can’t believe I (of all people) am saying this, but to suggest Everton are a bigger club than Leeds defies the laws of common sense.

I have an ex colleague who supports The Toffees and I remain in touch with, he is genuinely worried that after this season, their next derby will more likely be with Tranmere Rovers than Liverpool.

Of course it is possible that some rich Billionaire may come along and save them, it is equally possible that someone might decide they are too indebted to throw yet more money at. If they were to drop, I would think you’d see an exodus of the rats fleeing a sinking ship on a similar scale to current MP’s fleeing the Tory party before the next election.
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Not sure what your definition of “common sense” is but there are virtually no statistics or facts whatsoever to verify that Leeds are the bigger club.

Indeedido has at least tried to conjure something up, but it’s really an argument that Villa and Spurs are bigger that I haven’t even contested.

I know loads of Toffees, some of my best mates. They’re all worried about relegation. Doesn’t mean they’ll end up like Pompey. Doesn’t mean they’re smaller than Leeds (who lest we forget are still currently in the division below where they’ve spent the vast majority of the least 20 years!).

Even since the war Everton have won far more, let alone before it! You can even throw Leeds City into the mix, who also won nish.
 
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TeessideCleveland said:
While I'm not bothered if they stay up or go down I'm also not bothered either way if they go out of business or not
Wolves have their best chance of getting 3 points on Saturday. While Everton were unlucky with the wrongly disallowed goal against Fulham they were lucky Villa didn't score lots more in a truly awful performance last game
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1-0 Wolves - taking their best chance of 3 points
 
atypical_boro said:
Not sure what your definition of “common sense” is but there are virtually no statistics or facts whatsoever to verify that Leeds are the bigger club.

Indeedido has at least tried to conjure something up, but it’s really an argument that Villa and Spurs are bigger that I haven’t even contested.

I know loads of Toffees, some of my best mates. They’re all worried about relegation. Doesn’t mean they’ll end up like Pompey. Doesn’t mean they’re smaller than Leeds (who lest we forget are still currently in the division below where they’ve spent the vast majority of the least 20 years!).

Even since the war Everton have won far more, let alone before it! You can even throw Leeds City into the mix, who also won nish.
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Hang on a minute, you are the one arguing Everton are the bigger club, have bigger support worldwide you reckoned, I’d be surprised tbh if that was so. Where have I said Leeds are bigger btw? They are of probably similar size depending on how you choose to look at things. I think that is where the common sense comes in. I‘d guess we both have different views on what makes a big club. I am saying they are not bigger than Leeds, Leeds I hate to admit, are a big club, one team city with huge support across Yorkshire, the country and worldwide. I see far more Leeds shirts on my travels than I ever have Everton (not that that proves anything). Everton are in financial trouble Leeds apparently aren’t. You can’t argue about trophies from many decades ago.

What matters is now and yes Everton may be a league higher, but next season may be different 🤷‍♂️ Leeds appear to have sound financial ownership currently, Everton are in trouble financially, looking woeful so far (early days i know). No team has a divine right for anything. Many teams have gone down 2 leagues before, and will do in the future. Everton may get a sugar daddy and go on to dominate the world, but currently I don’t see it that way, they can’t even dominate their city. I have a severe hatred for Leeds, far more than Everton, to the point where a psychiatrist might deem it inappropriate. To me Everton are currently a nothing club moving backwards, despite relegation the new ownership at Leeds has far more promise (believe me that is said with a very, very heavy heart).

You seem to take the common sense comment a bit out of context, not everything is personal, its just my view sat in a small town in Yorkshire full of firkin Leeds shirts and where I go around the country and afar, I’ve seen far more of them than Everton but as I say it proves nowt.
 
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