I would like to issue an Apology to members of this board

[bumface]

If Zarah Sultana can support Starmer then you should too. This next election we absolutely must get the Tories out, failure to do so would have VERY dangerous implications for democracy in this country.

I don't remember all of these calls for unity and getting behind the leader to oust The Tories on here when Corbyn was in charge. As I recall it we had the opposite. That was on the old board of course. Funny how the 'centrist' Starmer supporters are now expecting people like me to get behind a bloke that I don't believe in when they were the same backstabbers who helped to prevent us from getting a Labour government in 2017 by refusing to support Corbyn.

 

[BaronSmoggie]

I would vote for Nobby ahead of BJ or Starmer. At least Nobby is upfront about being Nobby. You'd know exactly what you were getting. Boris lies every time he opens his mouth and Starmer seems to have fooled a lot of people in to thinking that he's a decent bloke when he isn't.

You know I was joking right, I didn't vote for Boris either. He is exactly what you said in your post. At the moment, there is nobody to vote for, so maybe Brewster had a point with his 'None of the above' campaign back in the 80's.

 

[Muttley]

I don't remember all of these calls for unity and getting behind the leader to oust The Tories on here when Corbyn was in charge.

Maybe you weren't paying attention? I was very much behind Corbyn but he completely fkked up the 2019 election he had two cracks at a GE win and failed. Yes you can point to some nefarious goings on in the background from more centre biased Labour Party MPs but they didn't write that car crash of a manifesto and then when interviewers asked about anything else say "oh yes we'll do that too!" It was a cringe fest watching him screw up unaided and unhindered by anyone else.

That said, if you couldn't see that Corbyn and Abbot were a STILL better choice to lead this country than the serial cheat, liar and chancer Johnson then I'm sure as the OP says, you can now!

 

[HundredRoom]

Maybe you weren't paying attention? I was very much behind Corbyn but he completely fkked up the 2019 election he had two cracks at a GE win and failed. Yes you can point to some nefarious goings on in the background from more centre biased Labour Party MPs but they didn't write that car crash of a manifesto and then when interviewers asked about anything else say "oh yes we'll do that too!" It was a cringe fest watching him screw up unaided and unhindered by anyone else.

That said, if you couldn't see that Corbyn and Abbot were a STILL better choice to lead this country than the serial cheat, liar and chancer Johnson then I'm sure as the OP says, you can now!

Just about to press the like button and then I read the last sentence

 

[LaPennaBianca]

Just about to press the like button and then I read the last sentence

Where is he wrong?

 

[SuperStu]

A Tory voter will vote for absolutely any flavour of Tory ( from far right to very very far right)

Thats it though. Tory voters will back any tory but the difference between one and the next isn't all that much really. If the Labour spectrum went from MPs that are far left to very very far left it'd be easy. Starmer's offered nothing to anyone left wing in 20 months as leader. Honestly I couldn't even call him a centrist. He's a right wing politician.

One is committed to democracy the other only when it's convenient.

Labour committed to democracy? Don't see that particularly. Starmer's cynical leadership election reforms at conference and his ditching of the mandate he won his leadership on, the dodgy candidate selection process in Bristol West earlier this year, rowing back on House of Lords reform, official policy is to refuse to allow Scotland a referendum... in what way are they committed to democracy?

 

[HarryVegas]

I don't remember all of these calls for unity and getting behind the leader to oust The Tories on here when Corbyn was in charge. As I recall it we had the opposite. That was on the old board of course. Funny how the 'centrist' Starmer supporters are now expecting people like me to get behind a bloke that I don't believe in when they were the same backstabbers who helped to prevent us from getting a Labour government in 2017 by refusing to support Corbyn.

I've backed every Labour Leader in every election since I was old enough to vote (1983, which is ironic, given the parallels between the disgraceful media treatment of Foot and Corbyn). My own political ideology lies a lot closer to Corbyn than to Starmer (I left the party over the Iraq war, only re-joining after Blair stepped down). Sadly though, all the machinery available to the British state is trained on the left. They did for Jeremy and would do a lot worse to Zahra Sultana - it doesn't take a great stretch of the imagination to imagine the headlines. We live in a deeply conservative country and everything is set up to keep it that way. Depressing, I know.

This being the case, I'll vote and campaign for Starmer too, as I did for all the rest, whether their politics was exactly to my taste or not. If he's ousted and replaced by, say, Angela Rayner, then I will back her (with a little more enthusiasm, it has to be said). As things stand right now, backing the elected Leader of the Labour Party is the only realistic option to rid us all of this awful cabal.

 

[bumface]

Thats it though. Tory voters will back any tory but the difference between one and the next isn't all that much really. If the Labour spectrum went from MPs that are far left to very very far left it'd be easy. Starmer's offered nothing to anyone left wing in 20 months as leader. Honestly I couldn't even call him a centrist. He's a right wing politician.



Labour committed to democracy? Don't see that particularly. Starmer's cynical leadership election reforms at conference and his ditching of the mandate he won his leadership on, the dodgy candidate selection process in Bristol West earlier this year, rowing back on House of Lords reform, official policy is to refuse to allow Scotland a referendum... in what way are they committed to democracy?

They don't want to hear that stuff on here mate. They think that they're the good guys.

 

[bumface]

I've backed every Labour Leader in every election since I was old enough to vote (1983, which is ironic, given the parallels between the disgraceful media treatment of Foot and Corbyn). My own political ideology lies a lot closer to Corbyn than to Starmer (I left the party over the Iraq war, only re-joining after Blair stepped down). Sadly though, all the machinery available to the British state is trained on the left. They did for Jeremy and would do a lot worse to Zahra Sultana - it doesn't take a great stretch of the imagination to imagine the headlines. We live in a deeply conservative country and everything is set up to keep it that way. Depressing, I know.

This being the case, I'll vote and campaign for Starmer too, as I did for all the rest, whether their politics was exactly to my taste or not. If he's ousted and replaced by, say, Angela Rayner, then I will back her (with a little more enthusiasm, it has to be said). As things stand right now, backing the elected Leader of the Labour Party is the only realistic option to rid us all of this awful cabal.

I couldn't back Rayner. I used to think that she was OK until the R2D2 shoes. She's a fake. Just like Starmer and Jess and most of the rest of them.

 

[Ex Footy Legs]

I find it hard to forgive anybody in the North East who voted Tory at the last election. In time I may mellow but for now you put me and my family in this horrible nightmare and ignored everything in front of you.

Reality is though corbyn and an ultra right wing press made people think it was a good choice

 

[HundredRoom]

Where is he wrong?

Well if you think Corbyn and Abbot were a credible alternative thats ok but how do I break this gently without destroying your dream. They just weren't. those 2 plus McDonald do not live the lives of the people they try to represent. I'd rather vote for Piers Corbyn Man of principle

 

[HundredRoom]

I couldn't back Rayner. I used to think that she was OK until the R2D2 shoes. She's a fake. Just like Starmer and Jess and most of the rest of them.

Its just a rich mans game to them.

 

[Laughing]

If your choices, according to some, are bad and really bad to abdicate that choice seems insane to me. It's ok to dislike starmer and to mistrust him and still vote for him if that is your best option. Politics is not like following a football team, for some, politics is actually a matter of life or death.

If you look at your decision making process in those terms, think for a minute, what it actually means to some folks, if you do nothing because starmer backtracked on his leadership promises. It should start to look a little childish.

 

[LaPennaBianca]

Well if you think Corbyn and Abbot were a credible alternative thats ok but how do I break this gently without destroying your dream. They just weren't. those 2 plus McDonald do not live the lives of the people they try to represent. I'd rather vote for Piers Corbyn Man of principle

Who the fuckk is McDonald?

And none of the Conservative cabinet live the lives of their new voters in the north and Midlands.

Credible opposition is such horse ****, Boris Johnson isn't a credible prime minister, but here he is after coming people like you.

 

[Muttley]

Well if you think Corbyn and Abbot were a credible alternative thats ok but how do I break this gently without destroying your dream. They just weren't.

I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion? If you think that Corbyn and Abbott could have somehow contrived to do a worse job of managing Brexit and COVID I think it is you who is deceiving himself. I mean let's look at how Johnson and Chums have done...

Highest deaths per capita in Western Europe
Moved infected people into Care Homes untested
Track and Trace £37 Billion for a system that has (in the opinion of the Select Committee overview) failed to deliver on its objectives
Lockdowns persistently too late
Message to population confused and ignored by themselves because they are "convivial".
Quarantine of incoming people ineffective and unregulated
Schools
Hospitality
High Street
Panic buying

Then we have

Brexit shambles
Supermarket shortages
HGV driver shortages
Doctors, Nurses and Carers shortage
Fishing Industry betrayed
Border controls not in place (EU citizens last time I checked can still walk straight into the UK)

But let's not forget the issue that is finally bursting the bubble of credibility that seemed to surround this bunch of liars and chancer, corruption.

Cash for peerages
Billions spent on contracts given to chums on a "fast track" list regardless of expertise or reputation in the field (PPE)
Party funding from foreign interests (Russian Oligarchs etc.)
Second Jobs

And then we have Johnson' personal appeal...

Jenifer Accuri
Only appearing in Parliament if he felt like it
Private jet to COP26
Not bothering to attend early COBRA meetings as the COVID crisis spread
Lying to Parliament
Lying to the Queen
Not wearing a mask when visiting a hospital when asked to do so.

And I could go on and on and on.

It leaves one question for you. What on earth do you think Corbyn might have done that would be worse than that lot?

 

[HundredRoom]

I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion? If you think that Corbyn and Abbott could have somehow contrived to do a worse job of managing Brexit and COVID I think it is you who is deceiving himself. I mean let's look at how Johnson and Chums have done...

Highest deaths per capita in Western Europe
Moved infected people into Care Homes untested
Track and Trace £37 Billion for a system that has (in the opinion of the Select Committee overview) failed to deliver on its objectives
Lockdowns persistently too late
Message to population confused and ignored by themselves because they are "convivial".
Quarantine of incoming people ineffective and unregulated
Schools
Hospitality
High Street
Panic buying

Then we have

Brexit shambles
Supermarket shortages
HGV driver shortages
Doctors, Nurses and Carers shortage
Fishing Industry betrayed
Border controls not in place (EU citizens last time I checked can still walk straight into the UK)

But let's not forget the issue that is finally bursting the bubble of credibility that seemed to surround this bunch of liars and chancer, corruption.

Cash for peerages
Billions spent on contracts given to chums on a "fast track" list regardless of expertise or reputation in the field (PPE)
Party funding from foreign interests (Russian Oligarchs etc.)
Second Jobs

And then we have Johnson' personal appeal...

Jenifer Accuri
Only appearing in Parliament if he felt like it
Private jet to COP26
Not bothering to attend early COBRA meetings as the COVID crisis spread
Lying to Parliament
Lying to the Queen
Not wearing a mask when visiting a hospital when asked to do so.

And I could go on and on and on.

It leaves one question for you. What on earth do you think Corbyn might have done that would be worse than that lot?

I dont come on here to defend the indefensible. 99% of what you say is right, But thats not really my argument.
What you and probably I should worry about is that after all this ineptitude is that the Labour party is still behind in the latest polls. Why do the public not see what is in front of their eyes. The mistrust in the opposition must run very deep,

 

[Randy]

More than that, what I think we need to see is an Electoral Pact between Labour, Liberals, Green and even the SNP to get the Tories out on the basis of a change to the voting system to full PR and reform of the House of Lords. The Tories have been able to negate any social change by abusing their influence in the media both printed and broadcast and by using their wealthy backers to fund things like bot farms.

Time for real change.

A good idea Muttley which I'd fully support, but the parties you mentioned will want too many slices of the pie to make it work which is sad.

The bot farms you mentioned are been outed more and more weekly on twitter so they should become something of a relic of social media's past soon.