My points gone sailing over your head Andy. You say Corbyn's unpopular within the party. The evidence says that's not the case.
I think some people need to accept one thing - Boris is popular
- Thread starter Jedi boro
- Start date
My points gone sailing over your head Andy. You say Corbyn's unpopular within the party. The evidence says that's not the case.
"The population has shifted and that's why Labour must embrace 90s managerial Blairism for all eternity"
This is essentially the same as saying Gibbo should join in with the paedo chants and that'll mean Newcastle and Sunderland supporters suddenly want to buy a boro season ticket.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/may/21/redbox.labour
Back at Labour conference, Mr Mandelson managed to offend the working class when he dismissed a union campaign to get more MPs elected from a wider range of backgrounds. "It would be a disaster if we thought we could discover some tidy quota system of blue collar, working class, northern, horny-handed, dirty-overalled people to have in our party,"
This is the gadgie who can win back red wall seats is it?
Back at Labour conference, Mr Mandelson managed to offend the working class when he dismissed a union campaign to get more MPs elected from a wider range of backgrounds. "It would be a disaster if we thought we could discover some tidy quota system of blue collar, working class, northern, horny-handed, dirty-overalled people to have in our party,"
This is the gadgie who can win back red wall seats is it?
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https://www.theguardian.com/politic...on-i-try-to-undermine-jeremy-corbyn-every-day
"I resent it, and I work every single day in some small way to bring forward the end of his tenure in office."
This is the gadgie who can unite the party is it?
"I resent it, and I work every single day in some small way to bring forward the end of his tenure in office."
This is the gadgie who can unite the party is it?
HolgateCorner
Well-known member
Labour will eventually win an election on a battleground which is currently unknown.
Thatcher won 1979 on ‘taming the unions’
Blair won 1997 on ‘things can only get better’
Cameron part won 2010 on ‘get the deficit down’.
Cameron won narrowly 2015 by threatening the SNP would hold the balance of power with Labour and also promising an EU referendum.
Johnson won 2019 on ‘get Brexit done’
Another battleground will emerge next election, Starmer needs to make sure he captures the mood of the marginals.
Uwefuchs
Well-known member
If you want an example of how little the truth matters just look at the comments on Facebook to the posts yesterday from Andy Preston and Anthony High his former deputy.
Many of the respondents have already made up their mind about his guilt (on High's post) and his innocence (on Preston's post) this is despite none of us knowing the full facts.
Politics has become more tribal than ever and it seems to be a case of pick a side and declare blind loyalty to it, whether that person or party is good or bad. Its like supporting a football team where all logic and common sense goes out of the window.
Many of the respondents have already made up their mind about his guilt (on High's post) and his innocence (on Preston's post) this is despite none of us knowing the full facts.
Politics has become more tribal than ever and it seems to be a case of pick a side and declare blind loyalty to it, whether that person or party is good or bad. Its like supporting a football team where all logic and common sense goes out of the window.
jam69
Well-known member
Also noticed despite it being 100% independent counsellors, many were blaming labour!
Andy_W
Well-known member
They really aren't, or I'm underestimating how little grasp you have of voters numbers.
Being popular within it a party is completely pointless if you're ignoring the people that are outside the party (when there's a hell of a lot more outside, and your actions make people want to leave).
I'm popular in the room I'm in now, 100% popular in fact, there's only one of me in here mind.
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Uwefuchs
Well-known member
Yeah I noticed that
Andy_W
Well-known member
It's not though, is it?This is essentially the same as saying Gibbo should join in with the paedo chants and that'll mean Newcastle and Sunderland supporters suddenly want to buy a boro season ticket.
Those with the paedo chants, whilst funny, are probably not based on reality (a bit like how the left of Labour think there's 14m labour left voters up for grabs), a minority in the party that ahven't got a grasp on reality. Also if you kick out the paedo chanters, they're unlikely to go and turn up at Newcastle, shouting paedo chants at boro.
The Newcastle and Sunderland fans were 1: not Boro fans a few years back, 2: not from the boro area and 3: not new fans who hadn't yet picked a side.
Andy. You claimed Corbyn was unpopular within the party. I refuted that. I gave you 3 examples that show you are wrong.
I didn't claim the number of voters you get was more important than winning seats.
I didn't claim that being popular within the party is more important than being popular outside of it.
This is why I'm saying the points gone over your head. Either back up your claim Corbyns unpopular within the party or accept you may possibly be wrong on that point. Stop trying to shift on to other arguments I haven't made.
2020 Labour leadership election Starmer promises Corbyn policies + competence and gets 56% of the vote. Long Bailey promises Corbyn policies and gets 28% of the vote. 84% between them. The left isn't a minority within the party, it is the party.
Wtf are you on about?
Are you not a boro supporter or something? I feel like you have no clue of the context of what I'm describing there.
Andy_W
Well-known member
Definitely, the tories are sailing high on something that likely isn't even going to be a positive (Brexit), even by the Tories own forecasts, and a massive vaccine boost (which is great), but it will be short-lived as the EU are catching up.
It's all about what comes in the future and the timing of the election I suppose.
I can't see many still hailing a Brexit success in 3 years, and largely think brexiteers will be a lot less vocal and tory/ Boris positive, especially when Austerity hits, and they will no longer be championing a vaccine which probably by then is mostly forgotten about (the deaths won't be though).
There's plenty of pitfalls along the way for the Tories and Boris, I don't even think Labour have to do that much really, just not be seen to be against the tories for no reason (in the eyes of Tory voters). Effectively they've got all the tools for a long fall, it's just whether the public will be awake enough to notice it.
I actually hope they don't fail, as it will be better for the economy, but I don't think it's likely, not at all.
Andy_W
Well-known member
No, I wrote "and that was against Corbyn, who himself wasn't exactly popular with Labour voters," which included the labour voters which had voted labour and then left (effectively labours typical catchment area, or people who voted labour before JC came in). Loads left after 2017 for example (when JC was there), so he lost popularity with labour voters as they legged it before the 2019 vote.
Gaining popularity in your party each election is pointless, if after each election more leave and go bat for the other team, which I've mentioned a few times.
I couldn't care less how popular he is in the party, or how many of the members like him, or if membership increases. All that matters is winning seats and getting more seats than the other clowns.
Andy_W
Well-known member
People see Corbyn as more left, than Starmer, and see Corbyn as weak and incompetent. Starmer's only had a year and it's been a weird one, not exactly time to be going radical on policies, and nobody would have been listening anyway (as there's bigger things in the news).2020 Labour leadership election Starmer promises Corbyn policies + competence and gets 56% of the vote. Long Bailey promises Corbyn policies and gets 28% of the vote. 84% between them. The left isn't a minority within the party, it is the party.
Wtf are you on about?
No idea, you started the paedo talk, so I was assuming it was something AJ related (who last played for the macams), not really a relevant subject anyway, so lets leave that.
I'm just gonna leave the whole thing with you Andy. Don't really trust you're a genuine boro fan now. Best wishes whoever you are.
Andy_W
Well-known member
I'm just gonna leave the whole thing with you Andy. Don't really trust you're a genuine boro fan now. Best wishes whoever you are.
What, because I never understood your fascination with paedos? I'd rather leave that to you, thanks.Same to you, UTB
Laughing
Well-known member
Is not because they don't want to its because it doesn't interest them until it directly impacts them.