How far away are we from being a team to give the Aussies a stern test in the Ashes next year?

davidmills

davidmills

Well-known member
1. Duckett
2. Crawley ????
3. Bethall
4. Root
5. Brook
6. Smith w/k
7. Stokes
8. Atkinson
9. Carse
10. 1 pace bowler per test from Wood, Archer, Potts, Stones
11. 1 spin bowler from Bashir, Leach, Ahmed

Pope as first back up batsmen and or w/k
Still question marks over Crawley so would take another opener as back up if we can find one.
Spin bowling dept looks a bit weak for me

Thoughts
 
davidmills said:
1. Duckett
2. Crawley ????
3. Bethall
4. Root
5. Brook
6. Smith w/k
7. Stokes
8. Atkinson
9. Carse
10. 1 pace bowler per test from Wood, Archer, Potts, Stones
11. 1 spin bowler from Bashir, Leach, Ahmed

Pope as first back up batsmen and or w/k
Still question marks over Crawley so would take another opener as back up if we can find one.
Spin bowling dept looks a bit weak for me

Thoughts
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There's no question marks over Crawley from the management team, and their opinion is all that matters. Barring injury, Crawley will open. Given that the management always looks at what a player can do, not what they have done, his stats from the last Ashes are irrelevant, but given that the same questions were swirling around before the 2023 Ashes, it is worth reminding ourselves of them...
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Also worth remembering that Lawrence was the best they could come up with as a replacement and he didn't manage to force his way in 😜
Edit - just to add I am really looking forward to Carse bowling at the horrible gits n'all 😀
 
Crawley will play. They have stuck by him thus far despite poor runs of form and not turning starts into hundreds. I reckon they fancy his big booming drives on good, consistent and fast pitches. His hight will help with the extra bounce too.

Pope is similar. For me he's never a 3 but they made him VC so very doubtful they will drop him or ask him to be first choice keeper given Smith's ability and high ceiling. So, that makes Bethell the spare middle order batter offering some part time spin. They need to find another opener as cover because the emperiment if using Lawrence there failed badly. Cox will go as WK cover in all likelihood.

Bowling wise, its a great situation to be in but will depend on Stokes being able to play as the 4th seamer. I reckon Atkinson and Carse are nailed on unless injured. That leaves Potts, Wood and hopefully Archer for the other seam spot. Spin wise I think they will stick with Bashir and use Rehan if conditions suit in place of a seamer. Leech might go as cover but I think he'll struggle on good pitches.

Full year to go though so. Lets see if their are any bolters this summer and hope for no injuries. I have a sneaky feeling Jamie Overton might get a tour spot too, particularly if Stokes can't bowl.
 
The current side is showing a fair degree of promise and we have 2 of the absolute best batsmen on the planet without question (and Duckett is also very good imho).

But I don't know if there is enough quality in the side throughout. Stokes has been a decent captain but his numbers with bat and ball aren't that great since covid times. A lot of the other 'good' players have either flimsy records (Woakes/Pope/Crawley) or aren't yet established to enough to be fully confident in (Bethell, Smith, Atkinson, Carse) etc.

And we haven't had a truly excellent Test spinner since Swann. Root is the closest thing to it! You need a spinner in Oz.
 
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davidmills said:
Which is why I said I would take another opener as BACKUP.
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And why I'm sure they won't 😜 Stokes will probably volunteer 😂 Wasn't meaning to sound dismissive, just that unless someone Baz hasn't yet heard of does something incredible between now and the first Ashes Test, Zak will be walking out to face the first ball to the strains of Jerusalem 👍
 
atypical_boro said:
The current side is showing a fair degree of promise and we have 2 of the absolute best batsmen on the planet without question (and Duckett is also very good imho).

But I don't know if there is enough quality in the side throughout. Stokes has been a decent captain but his numbers with bat and ball aren't that great since covid times. A lot of the other 'good' players have either flimsy records (Woakes/Crawley) or aren't yet established to enough to be fully confident in (Bethell, Smith, Atkinson, Carse) etc.

And we haven't had a truly excellent Test spinner since Swann. Root is the closest thing to it! You need a spinner in Oz.
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Yeah, gotta hope Bashir's learning on the job bears fruit 👍
 
I think the series hinges on the condition of the Aussie bowlers; Cummins has struggled for the 18 months, Hazlewood is injury prone and Starc is getting on.

If these three have an off series there is a massive drop off in quality to their next best bowlers. When Boland played in the Ashes last year he was taken apart.

Combine this with the potential of Wood and (although unlikely) Archer coming back into the team and I think England have the better XI.
 
271266 said:
As of now this is my team.
Crawley
Duckett
Pope
Root
Brook
Stokes
Smith
Atkinson
Carse
Archer
Bashir
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I don't think Archer will play enough red ball cricket to be a realistic selection so I'd swap Wood for him. Otherwise this is also my team (y)
 
Biggest issues -

1. Pope and Crawley. The Aussies will be all over those two. They seem to lack the confidence and innate self belief of the rest of the top order. I think Bethal will come in for one of them at some point, who has that in spades.

2. Mark wood and Jofra Archer fitness. I think they’ll both need to play at least 3 of the 5 tests to give us a chance.



Positives -

1. I think in Duckett, Bethal, Root, Brook, Stokes and Smith we now have the makings of a seriously strong and entertaining top 6/7

2. Picking 2 from Carse, Atkinson and Woakes to come in at 8 and 9 alongside Wood / Archer and the spinner give you really long batting lineup. Too many times our tail gets blown away for about 20 runs by starc and Cummins
 
35to39 said:
I think the series hinges on the condition of the Aussie bowlers; Cummins has struggled for the 18 months, Hazlewood is injury prone and Starc is getting on.

If these three have an off series there is a massive drop off in quality to their next best bowlers. When Boland played in the Ashes last year he was taken apart.

Combine this with the potential of Wood and (although unlikely) Archer coming back into the team and I think England have the better XI.
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Good point.

I think for England to ever win in Oz, not only do England need to be on top of their game, Oz need to be below theirs. They were in 2010/2011 for sure and that's why it was so good to watch as we took them apart in some games.

But if the teams are neck and neck in quality you can expect a 4-0/4-1 defeat as usual as the conditions are just so different for us. Can 'Bazball' really be effective in Oz? Its not in the sub-continent.
 
atypical_boro said:
Good point.

I think for England to ever win in Oz, not only do England need to be on top of their game, Oz need to be below theirs. They were in 2010/2011 for sure and that's why it was so good to watch as we took them apart in some games.

But if the teams are neck and neck in quality you can expect a 4-0/4-1 defeat as usual as the conditions are just so different for us. Can 'Bazball' really be effective in Oz? Its not in the sub-continent.
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Agree with all of that. We've tried to make our home pitches more similar to those down under in the last couple of years - flatter quicker pitches that aren't just green seamers. Hopefully this helps us but I feel like a lot lies on the first test - if we go 1-0 down it'll be a massive struggle.
 
35to39 said:
Agree with all of that. We've tried to make our home pitches more similar to those down under in the last couple of years - flatter quicker pitches that aren't just green seamers. Hopefully this helps us but I feel like a lot lies on the first test - if we go 1-0 down it'll be a massive struggle.
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At least this time we MIGHT avoid our quadrennial drubbing at the Gabba in the first test......
 
35to39 said:
Agree with all of that. We've tried to make our home pitches more similar to those down under in the last couple of years - flatter quicker pitches that aren't just green seamers. Hopefully this helps us but I feel like a lot lies on the first test - if we go 1-0 down it'll be a massive struggle.
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Agreed, although I would say 1-0 down in a 5 match series needn't be as fatal as in a 3 match one. The issue there being they only need a draw overall to retain the Ashes anyway
 
theboydom said:
Agreed, although I would say 1-0 down in a 5 match series needn't be as fatal as in a 3 match one. The issue there being they only need a draw overall to retain the Ashes anyway
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Personally, regardless of the daft little urn's location, I'd see a 2-2 draw as a brilliant result in the context of away Ashes performances in my lifetime. I don't remember 86/87 and every one other than 10/11 has been an absolute drubbing. The Aussies would be shattered by us getting a 2-2 draw down there.
 
35to39 said:
I think the series hinges on the condition of the Aussie bowlers; Cummins has struggled for the 18 months, Hazlewood is injury prone and Starc is getting on.

If these three have an off series there is a massive drop off in quality to their next best bowlers. When Boland played in the Ashes last year he was taken apart.

Combine this with the potential of Wood and (although unlikely) Archer coming back into the team and I think England have the better XI.
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The aussies will find a new bowling gem they always do.
 
davidmills said:
1. Duckett
2. Crawley ????
3. Bethall
4. Root
5. Brook
6. Smith w/k
7. Stokes
8. Atkinson
9. Carse
10. 1 pace bowler per test from Wood, Archer, Potts, Stones
11. 1 spin bowler from Bashir, Leach, Ahmed

Pope as first back up batsmen and or w/k
Still question marks over Crawley so would take another opener as back up if we can find one.
Spin bowling dept looks a bit weak for me

Thoughts
Click to expand...
Worth noting that average age of our probable starting 11 is circe 28, current Aussie team has average of almost 33.

They are an ageing side, Smith 35, Starc 34, Hazelwood 33 and Khawaja 37.

By next Winter they will be another year older, do they have any young talent coming through to match what we've blooded this year?
 
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