How desperate the Anti EV liars are getting

There are more public chargers than petrol stations and 72% of households have off street parking
Would be interested to see how that public chargers stat fares outside of London - I don’t own a car at the moment myself but would definitely consider buying an EV if I could. Tried to rent one for a long driving trip before but there was a distinct lack of chargers outside of cities.
 
Agreed. But we're still right at the start of EVs. Like any technology it gets cheaper and situations get better. It's improving constantly at a rate of knots... its absolutely not the right solution for everyone yet but that group is growing all the time and certainly goes well beyond retired boomers and tech Bois that someone referred to earlier.
Just needs to get cheaper and more accessible, which it surely will. I agree that a lot of the anti EV stuff is bunkum. A lot of lobbying will be going into it from the car companies and oil producers.
 
Would be interested to see how that public chargers stat fares outside of London - I don’t own a car at the moment myself but would definitely consider buying an EV if I could. Tried to rent one for a long driving trip before but there was a distinct lack of chargers outside of cities.
Pretty well I think, I mean everywhere I go these days I see either a brand new installation or a new one going in somewhere
 
Just needs to get cheaper. I agree that a lot of the anti EV stuff is bunkum. A lot of lobbying will be going into it from the car companies and oil producers.
In the main the companies themselves are backing it, it's where all their R&D is going. This is where the frustration comes from, none of these oil backed scare stories in the media actually reflect anything even resembling a real world EV owning experience.
 
Pretty well I think, I mean everywhere I go these days I see either a brand new installation or a new one going in somewhere
Maintenance and capacity is another issue- if you’re off the beaten track on a trip and in need of charge and the installation point is out of service or there’s a long wait - inconvenient.

EVs for daily use in cities are fine at the moment as far as I am aware.
 
There are more public chargers than petrol stations and 72% of households have off street parking
There are FAR more petrol and diesel pumps than EV chargers. It takes <6 minutes to fill up your ICE car. It takes >20 minutes to boost your EV range significantly, and at least an hour to completely charge it.

All the advice says to keep the battery in the range between 20% and 80%, and choose charging stations that have 6+ fast charging points, and facilities like a cafe and toilet etc so you need to plan the journey carefully. But at peak times, on motorway networks, you'll be queueing.

It's a level of complexity and delay that you just don't need when you are trying to get somewhere - whether it's a business meeting or to catch a plane or a weekend away.

Oh and 72% of households with off street parking - that's wrong. It's about 65%, but of those 65% some have issues with alleys or lanes that need to be kept clear. Realistically only 50% of houses can have charging points installed.
 
I would probably look at an ev as my next car but only if it had a range of 400 miles due to the regular trips I make to the south coast with work often overnight. How far away are we from the batteries going this far?
 
Would be interested to see how that public chargers stat fares outside of London - I don’t own a car at the moment myself but would definitely consider buying an EV if I could. Tried to rent one for a long driving trip before but there was a distinct lack of chargers outside of cities.
Fair point. There are certainly black spots that need fixing. And not where you’d expect. I went to the lakes last year and expected to have a nightmare. It was fine. Yet I spent a lot of time Canterbury, in a fairly populous part of the country and it was pretty poor
 
I would probably look at an ev as my next car but only if it had a range of 400 miles due to the regular trips I make to the south coast with work often overnight. How far away are we from the batteries going this far?
We have arrived. I believe the Mercedes EQS does that. In all honesty though you really don’t need that. You’re bound to stop once that length of a journey. I travel frequently in the opposite direction and need to charge for about 11 mins
 
Maintenance and capacity is another issue- if you’re off the beaten track on a trip and in need of charge and the installation point is out of service or there’s a long wait - inconvenient.

EVs for daily use in cities are fine at the moment as far as I am aware.
Tbh it's now our main car, we use it for any and all journeys that don't involve towing (yes another actual EV issue). I have never thought twice about a journey across the country or found it challenging to charge. Mostly it's just a little planning.

15-20 mins at a service station whilst a grab a coffee once or twice is all it takes in reality

Edit: I will add though I rarely have to public charge. Except on a a rarer long journey, few times a year maybe.
 
There are FAR more petrol and diesel pumps than EV chargers. It takes <6 minutes to fill up your ICE car. It takes >20 minutes to boost your EV range significantly, and at least an hour to completely charge it.

All the advice says to keep the battery in the range between 20% and 80%, and choose charging stations that have 6+ fast charging points, and facilities like a cafe and toilet etc so you need to plan the journey carefully. But at peak times, on motorway networks, you'll be queueing.

It's a level of complexity and delay that you just don't need when you are trying to get somewhere - whether it's a business meeting or to catch a plane or a weekend away.

Oh and 72% of households with off street parking - that's wrong. It's about 65%, but of those 65% some have issues with alleys or lanes that need to be kept clear. Realistically only 50% of houses can have charging points installed.
Apologies about the off street parkingI’d seen the figures for Wales. My bad. Although is the 50% based on fact or just your supposition?



As per the battery percentage advice. I think, for a journey, 20% is WAY too conservative. I usually go down to ten and have a couple of times hit 1% at the charger. Batteries charge a lot faster between 5% and 20%. The bit about not going above 80% is true at least. Charging slows right down.

It should be said this is only en route. You should definitely charge to 100% and pre condition the car before a long journey.

These are all just figures, in the real world, and in the small country we live in it means you can travel pretty much the whole country with only one charging stop
 
Are they comparable specs?
Yes. As I said, the ‘Plus’ spec, which is the middle one between Core and Ultimate.
Obviously performance isn’t comparable, nor the quality of the ride, though the ICE is excellent.
I’m very fortunate, I can afford the difference, many cannot.
 
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I don't think any reasonable person is arguing that the purchase price of an EV is absolutely equal to the purchase cost of an ICE car, however they are getting cheaper all the time and the 2nd and even 3rd hand markets are steadily growing. It's obvious they are not affordable to everyone, yet, but they are an increasingly viable solution for many more if you actually reflect real world experiences as opposed to clickbait lies... where we are now Vs where we were 5 years ago is immense. When petrol cars first appeared they were only for a select few same with home PCs and mobile phones, and now look where we are.
 
Yes. As I said, the ‘Plus’ spec, which is the middle one between Core and Ultimate.
Obviously performance isn’t comparable, nor the quality of the rise, though the ICE is excellent.
I’m very fortunate, I can afford the difference, many cannot.
Yeah, that’s where most “fair” comparisons fall down. Must ICE can’t match EV performance figures. That’s why the Astra comparison was intriguing : the ICE is only about 20bhp down on the EV
 
170 mile commute :oops: ? Feck me. Several hours a day in your car prison? They couldn't pay me enough. I'd top myself before I'd do that.

Especially in an EV :D
Well I used to run all over the country in a van in my last job on a regular basis. I now work from home most of the time so this trip once or twice a week in a premium car is a significant improvement
 
You'd be surprised. If you buy the right quality and maintain things correctly they can last a really long time. A lot of it is a mindset thing but it's also about having the ability to recognise good quality and also being aware when companies are making people buy things they don't need. Obviously people who want the latest thing are going to struggle with hanging onto things as they want the buzz of getting something new. But in truth, a lot of these things simply aren't needed.

Take laptops for instance. We currently run three, bought in 2008, 2011 & 2013. They all run Windows 10 which was a free upgrade and boot up really quickly and perform well. The only expenditure has been a couple of SSD upgrades and an extra 4mb of memory. The latter one came with 16mb of memory but I'll probably put an SSD drive in it at some point. During this time I think some people could have spent £10k plus in replacing and getting the latest models that don't do anything extra for what 95% of people use a laptop for. Especially if you're talking Apple Macs.

The same goes for mobiles as well, but you're probably better changing these sooner than a laptop due to security updates. We have an iPhone 7 plus which is 7 years old and it still performs well. Apple actually provided a new battery because they were caught out using software that degraded the battery on purpose in an attempt to force you to buy a newer model 😆

I recently changed my 2016 google phone to a current model and I can't really tell any difference between them.

We've had our washing machine (Miele) 14 years and our Vacuum (Sebo) longer than than that.
Well at least we agree on some things, to a degree.

Buying quality is often better than buying cheap twice, but the quality does cost more most of the time. The trick is identifying if the additional quality is actually value, and there are laws of diminishing returns etc. But you can also get instances where the better option is cheaper still, like with the electric motor (100 year old tech) which costs less than a comparative engine, but they're far better for most applications. They have far less moving parts, more reliable, far more reactive, more efficient and far less to go wrong. The reason they were not used in moving vehicles prior was because we never had the tech to power them, but now we do. Been on trains for decades, as they effectively move along a grid, and can now go ludicrous speeds at far increased efficiency, and now cars are next. Don't think it will ever suit ships or flights longer than an hour or so, but who knows, tech always gets better and leaves previous tech behind.

Time is money, and sometimes it's worth paying slightly more to make better use of time, as it makes the returns better. Same with comfort and safety, somethings are worth a little extra cost, as you get more back in return. I could drive the same car for 50 years, and it might still work to a degree, but If I miss a meeting and lose a 200k job, then I've saved nothing. Then you get the opposite, like people paying 10x the price to fly 1st class, on a 10 hour flight. If your time isn't worth £500/hr, then the first class flight is probably not worth it, same with people spending a months wages on a business class flight, it's hard to make that make sense.

See, for a PC I couldn't get by with a 2008-2013, processor too slow, bus bandwith less, memory speed slower, processor architecture not making best use of current software which is important with things like CAD or complex calculations, and even things like having a 100 tabs open in chrome (which some do). Same applies to a laptop, my current one weighs <1kg, wasn't that expensive and knocks the socks off anything from 3-5 years ago, so the result is I take it to more places and use it more, to make better use of time. It pays for itself in no time. It's also far quieter and doesn't set my balls on fire.

Apple gear is good quality, but their operating system is where the value is, it's far more stable and secure than windows. I'm not used to it though, so I don't use it for a lap top or computer, but do use iPhones and iPads. You pay more for an apple device, but they hold value more. This enables me to have a new phone and iPad every couple of years for not a lot of money at all, they key is looking after what you will be later selling.

Ultimately it's all about what you want (or have) to spend (total), over the lifetime of the product, and what returns you get from that in quality, quality of life, financial returns, efficiency etc, people value each of those metrics differently and they should by product also. The more I spend on a product/ purchase, for personal use of for my company, the more time I spend drilling down into more and more detail. The more effort I put into it, the more accurate the cost/ value prediction is.
 
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Apologies about the off street parkingI’d seen the figures for Wales. My bad. Although is the 50% based on fact or just your supposition?



As per the battery percentage advice. I think, for a journey, 20% is WAY too conservative. I usually go down to ten and have a couple of times hit 1% at the charger. Batteries charge a lot faster between 5% and 20%. The bit about not going above 80% is true at least. Charging slows right down.

It should be said this is only en route. You should definitely charge to 100% and pre condition the car before a long journey.

These are all just figures, in the real world, and in the small country we live in it means you can travel pretty much the whole country with only one charging stop
The 20%-80% is old news I think, that was there to play it safe and protect batteries whilst they were figuring out long term health. They have the numbers now so they know exactly where they were at.

For me, on a longer trip, I would plan to get to a destination with min 10-20 miles range (depending on location) which for me is about 3-7%, and on a long trip I would just charge up to whatever made the most sense, whether that was 50%, 80% or 95%. I would rarely do 100% as the last 5-10% was slow on my old car. Wouldn't have any idea on the new car as never needed to push it in a year and a half. Charging over 80% won't cause the battery any damage that's noticeable, it's not worth worrying about unless you use superchargers every day and drive 300 miles a day.

I spend my week with my car on 30%-80% charge, I don't even think about it, and have zero idea what range is on the car now. I set the charge limit on 80% not because I need to for the battery, I just figure it can't do any harm (might help with residuals), and I don't need 250 miles of range, I don't even need 100 miles of range for 99% of my trips.
 
Well I used to run all over the country in a van in my last job on a regular basis. I now work from home most of the time so this trip once or twice a week in a premium car is a significant improvement
Yeah once every week or two is fine, doing that each day would be tough mind, but gotta do what you gotta do.

I think you would like the i4 like, who wouldn't. Neighbour's got a blue one and over the road has a grey one, and they both look class. They're both extremely happy with them too.
 
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