How can a Vaccine be safe for a 30 year old, but not a 29 year old?

changingman

Well-known member
Again this is about data and transparency. When changing the guidelines yesterday a table should have published highlighting risk of death from Covid versus risk of death from vaccine, banded by age group. It's much easier to argue the benefits of something if you have the facts to hand.

Completely in favour of personal choice here but informed choice is key. The mail headline is jingoistic bull**** which doesn't inform at all, and the Sun front page whilst quoting data, (deliberately?) chooses misleading data (risk of death for entire population versus u30s specifically).
 

spanishman

Well-known member
AstraZeneca suspended temporarily for people under 60 in Spain

See the Spanish coronavirus thread for a translation of the Spanish article from last night.
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
I'm 32.... so I've lost all confidence now in AZ.... when it gets offered



BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56665517

Under-30s in the UK are to be offered an alternative Covid vaccine to the AstraZeneca jab due to the evidence linking it to rare blood clots.

The recommendation comes after a review by the UK drugs regulator found that by the end of March 79 people had suffered rare blood clots after vaccination - 19 of whom had died.

They're only saying it because they don't have any more vaccines available for the under 30's anyway, and won't do until July, so pausing now, isn't actually a pause, it's already forced stop before we got to this. Nobody under 30, not at risk, will be getting AZ in the near future, the same way that nobody under 30 will be getting Pfizer or Moderna.

When July comes, and they again have stock, and work their way down to the under 30's, you will again find that the risk of taking the AZ vaccine is far, far less that the collective risk of catching covid, long covid and passing on to others, more lockdows and so on and so on.

Had they had plenty available, and no production delay's they wouldn't be stopping, basically, this is an excuse for the time being but it does give them some free time to look into the numbers, for no additional risk than we already have.
 

TeaCider

Well-known member
Again this is about data and transparency. When changing the guidelines yesterday a table should have published highlighting risk of death from Covid versus risk of death from vaccine, banded by age group. It's much easier to argue the benefits of something if you have the facts to hand.

Completely in favour of personal choice here but informed choice is key. The mail headline is jingoistic bull**** which doesn't inform at all, and the Sun front page whilst quoting data, (deliberately?) chooses misleading data (risk of death for entire population versus u30s specifically).

They did do that, the graphs were not particularly great.

The miniscule risk of death from the vaccine isn't higher amongst under 30s, so why wouldn't they use the full population?
I'd imagine it's probably more of a risk the older you get, it's just the risk of death from Covid is many, many orders of magnitude higher.
 

TeaCider

Well-known member
A good comparison used today is that the risk of blood clot from the vaccine is similar to the risk of blood clot whilst taking a long haul flight, both extremely low.
 

Pak_Doo_Ik

Well-known member
AstraZeneca suspended temporarily for people under 60 in Spain

See the Spanish coronavirus thread for a translation of the Spanish article from last night.
Thanks for this SM, how are the Spanish media reporting the drop in deaths being attributed to the vaccine roll out in the UK and the UK vaccine roll out in general. I am genuinely interested as to the coverage it gets around Europe and the attitude of the residents to the UK at the moment.
 

spanishman

Well-known member
Thanks for this SM, how are the Spanish media reporting the drop in deaths being attributed to the vaccine roll out in the UK and the UK vaccine roll out in general. I am genuinely interested as to the coverage it gets around Europe and the attitude of the residents to the UK at the moment.
To be honest, I do not see much on the Spanish sites I look at. However most of the sites I look at are regional ones for the province I am in. With a focus on what is happening in Almería and Andalucía.

The only one that is a national one that I look at regularly is this one (an English translation site) https://english.elpais.com/

There is another English language translation site that @Malaguena references from time to time - http://www.surinenglish.com/

So if you fancy having an easy flavour of Spanish news have a look at these two English language sites. See if you can find much about the UK.

Also, the Spanish people I talk to are interested in what is happening here. Rather than the UK.
 

Pak_Doo_Ik

Well-known member
Cheers for these I'll have a look to temper my own curiosity.

I get that about being more interested in your own country, but as an expat who has shown an interest on how the UK are doing in the past I thought you might be able to let me know what the overall feeling is towards the UK at the moment and our use of AZ vaccine.
 

Cuthbert

Well-known member
All i'm saying is it was 30 people the other day.... now it's 79, what will it be tomorrow or next week?

At the moment I have lost faith in AZ, I will consider taking another vaccine

If it's not good enough for under 30s... it's not OK for me
If you are under 30, apparently (according to BBC last night), the chances of dying in a car crash are 1/100,000 (but every three months)... and yet we all still happily get in cars.

The chance of having this most unlikely side effect for under 30's is estimated to be 1/100,000, but not all of those die, so the chances of dying are even less.

I do sympathise, as being 32 (as you mentioned), you're very close to that cut off... but it has to be drawn somewhere. (But the risks are minute).
 

spanishman

Well-known member
Cheers for these I'll have a look to temper my own curiosity.

I get that about being more interested in your own country, but as an expat who has shown an interest on how the UK are doing in the past I thought you might be able to let me know what the overall feeling is towards the UK at the moment and our use of AZ vaccine.
Apathy is perhaps my one word answer towards the UK about coronavirus .

Any focus that I have seen in the last 12 months has been more about Brexit than anything else.
 
The report I seen was about the risk outweighing the benefits.

so for under 30’s the risk of been hospitalised by COVID was 0.8 but the risk of clots was 1 per million (I think that was the numbers or close too). Therefore the benefit of the jab was outweighed by the risk of getting COVID.

For the other age groups, numbers I don’t remember , the risk of getting seriously ill from COVID was greater than the risk of clots. The higher the age bracket the bigger the benefit against against the risk of the side effects.
 

changingman

Well-known member
That data is the key (and helps to usefully demonstrate the decision which has been made). Hopefully someone somewhere is working on breaking it down by age group further but probably not enough blood clot data to summarise with any certainty yet (which is telling in itself!)
 

Liamo

Well-known member
What’s the causes and numbers?
According to an article published in the New York Times:

Thrombocytopenia with COVID-19 vaccines

More than 31 million people in the United States have received at least one dose, and 36 similar cases [thrombocytopenia] had been reported to the government’s Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, VAERS, by the end of January. The cases involved either the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccine

Thrombocytopenia is the same form of rare blood clotting, characterised by low platelets, that is causing all the concern with the AZ vaccine.
 
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