Hong Kong Story

Millbrook said:
And how many people would that be?
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I couldn't put a number on it, I didn't count them. That's why I said 'a fair proportion'.

FWIW I'm with Paterson in that I don't see how 'celebration' of a war that ended 75 years ago is a good thing. For many people its just an excuse for a **** up. You don't have to agree.
 
Paterson said:
It's been a pretty half-hearted lockdown in the UK. People can just about come and go as they please and for those that can't work from home social distancing is pot luck. That's not to mention all the incoming flights.

On a separate note, isn't it about time we stopped celebrating WW2? Let's move on.
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No one is celebrating WW2, It is the END of hostilities in Europe that is being celebrated.
 
atypical_boro said:
I couldn't put a number on it, I didn't count them. That's why I said 'a fair proportion'.

FWIW I'm with Paterson in that I don't see how 'celebration' of a war that ended 75 years ago is a good thing. For many people its just an excuse for a **** up. You don't have to agree.
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A fair proportion of a small number of people. Complete b***ks then.
 
And 1945 was the perfect time to celebrate the victory by the people who had gone through the war. A celebration of victory 75 years on by people who largely had no part in it just plays up to the jingoism in certain parts of our society and keeps wounds open with current allies that should have been healed long ago.
 
Paterson said:
Some of you, particularly Roofie, seem to be mixing up remembering people with victory celebrations. Friday's knees up is nothing to do with deaths in later conflicts.
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The two are synonymous.
The celebrations go hand in hand: remembering those who died to give us our freedom today.
Raising a glass to those who paid the ultimate price doesnt diminish their sacrifice.
It is an acknowledgement of them and a cause to celebrate our own freedom.
Like Armistice Day - there`s glasses raised after the ceremonies - the living are allowed respite to remember those who have served [and those still serving] around the globe.
 
Paterson said:
And 1945 was the perfect time to celebrate the victory by the people who had gone through the war. A celebration of victory 75 years on by people who largely had no part in it just plays up to the jingoism in certain parts of our society and keeps wounds open with current allies that should have been healed long ago.
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If youve ever spoken to those who remain after the D-Day landings, or visited the graves of those who died - or read a little more history, you might understand what those events and VE Day stands for.
Exfoliate the politics, jingoism and flag-waving for a moment.
"Old wounds"?
An organised group of serving and ex-service personnel cycled to all the beaches of the D-Day landings [last year in commemoration] and spoke to the many Germans and their families, who were amongst the French, English, Russians, Belgians - and people from around the world, paying their respects.
Many had a thirst for knowledge about D-Day and about WWII.
There was no animosity.
The act of Remembrance is a duty of a civilised society.

I leave that up to you.
 
Paterson said:
And 1945 was the perfect time to celebrate the victory by the people who had gone through the war. A celebration of victory 75 years on by people who largely had no part in it just plays up to the jingoism in certain parts of our society and keeps wounds open with current allies that should have been healed long ago.
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You realize you wrote all that in English don't you?
Now imagine the course if the allies had lost. You would be writing that in German. Actually, you wouldn't have written that at all as access to the internet would probably be heavily moderated. Actually scratch that aswell, you'd be lucky to make it out of the hospital room because if you weren't a perfect specimen in the eyes of Hitler and his friends you would have been stolen from your mother as a baby and either thrown into a gas chamber or brought up to serve the Reich.

So yes I will celebrate the victory on Friday by raising a glass in my back yard. Many members of my family have served in the military over the years, my late grandad landed on Gold beach on D-Day.
It's about showing respect and yes, in my eyes, gratitude for the type of life you have today.
 
r00fie1 said:
The two are synonymous.
The celebrations go hand in hand: remembering those who died to give us our freedom today.
Raising a glass to those who paid the ultimate price doesnt diminish their sacrifice.
It is an acknowledgement of them and a cause to celebrate our own freedom.
Like Armistice Day - there`s glasses raised after the ceremonies - the living are allowed respite to remember those who have served [and those still serving] around the globe.
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And Armistice day is the perfect and appropriate time to do it. If you had posted that lengthy post of yours in the run up to Remembrance Sunday, I'd have happily 'liked' it. This though is a party, a celebration, a chance for those who would like to return the country to the way they imagine it to have been in the post-war years to get all misty eyed and for others to have a few pints of Becks and sing 'Ten German Bombers'.
 
I am just concerned that street parties might end up in the street.

Anyway, what do people think about the comparison between Hong Kong and London and why have there been mass deaths in one but not in the other? One got the virus early and is next to the source of it. The other had over a month in hand. It is deeply tragic of course.
 
Robert Nichols said:
I am just concerned that street parties might end up in the street.

Anyway, what do people think about the comparison between Hong Kong and London and why have there been mass deaths in one but not in the other? One got the virus early and is next to the source of it. The other had over a month in hand. It is deeply tragic of course.
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From what I understand, having watched a report about Hong Kong a good 4 weeks ago, they just conformed to the lockdown situation straight away, masks on, closed the schools, stayed at home.

Maybe being so close to the mainland made it seem more real to them, coupled with their island habitat which allows slightly greater controls.
 
Paterson said:
And Armistice day is the perfect and appropriate time to do it. If you had posted that lengthy post of yours in the run up to Remembrance Sunday, I'd have happily 'liked' it. This though is a party, a celebration, a chance for those who would like to return the country to the way they imagine it to have been in the post-war years to get all misty eyed and for others to have a few pints of Becks and sing 'Ten German Bombers'.
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What people "imagine" I wont speculate.
As an aside:
My Nan used to put on a good spread every VE day to remember my Grandad, whom I never met, because he died during the War.
He worked in engineering producing munitions for the RAF Bombers and did overtime in the small-arms section. When he could he was a volunteer fireman and fire-watch.
He died of pneumonia and my Nan brought up my Uncle and Two Daughter`s during the remainder of the war.
After a short prayer we were told to "tuck in" and enjoy the party.
The point being that we understood why we were celebrating and commemorating.

I wont speculate on people being "misty eyed".
Thats for you to ask how you get that impression and then to clear the clutter away.
I`l be thinking of the graves the ABF cyclists visited last August.

Lets leave it there shall we.
All the best.
 
When I was little I watched a programme on tv with my parents and my gran. It showed row after row of the graves of young people who died in WW2. For what seemed like an age the cameras scanned the headstones and no one appeared to be over 21 . Most were teenagers some had lied about their age and they put 16 on the headstone instead of 15.
I went to ask a question but as I turned I could see them all sobbing. Afterwards they talked about family who had died fighting or at home. It cheered them up a little to remember them and pass on their stories to a younger generation.
I decided then as a kid that I would always remember their families when they had gone. Both my parents passed away and as I had promised myself I always remember on days like Armistice day. VE day. and VJ day .
VE day is a celebration of the end of the fighting not of the fighting.
Its up to individuals to do what they want to do. But they don't have the right to tell me its been long enough and I should stop , they should just carry on and let me get on with it..
 
Most of Hong Kong is not on an island it is part of the mainland and the harbour that separates Hong Kong Island from Kowloon and Hong Kong Territories is verr narrow, there are many tunnels under it and a ferry ride only takes a few minutes.
It is far more connected to China than we are, it is part of China.
 
Hong Kong (and a few other places) were better prepared up-front due to SARS. People are more conditioned to wearing masks in public etc.

However, the complete lack of care shown by a few governments (UK, USA, Brazil) explains the much higher death toll even though we had weeks to prepare. Add that attitude to the past 10 years of austerity which cut the very services we need most, plus the negative impact of Brexit on e.g. nurse numbers and you have a perfect storm of inadequacy.

50,000 excess deaths. Unforgivable.
 
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