HundredRoom
Well-known member
I don't think you will see many BLM protesters outside a Chinese operated mine in Africa, of which there are many, if not a majority of Chinese operated mines.
Helping to understand what it is like to be black
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mitch_at_merseyside
Well-known member
Isn't that the problem? That Asian countries are one of hegemony, we have seen black people in southern China during the virus outbreak kicked out of their hotels and apartments and end up sleeping on the street. There are zero laws protecting black people in Asia from racism whether deliberate or accidental due to 'cultural differences'. In my experience working in education in Asia, black teachers have been paid less and had all kinds of names from under the sun thrown at them from other employees, students and their parents/grandparents.
Black lives matter all around the world.
Black lives matter all around the world.
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HundredRoom
Well-known member
Well yes , its just this argument that this generation has to be accountable and compensate for what happened hundreds of years ago when we see forms of racism happening right now. For example Middle East and their far east asian slaves. Plus the ways you allude to.
I can hear the cries of whataboutery as I type.
I can hear the cries of whataboutery as I type.
SmallTown
Well-known member
Not sure how that's pertinent. I guess people such as yourself feel they have to get a personal dig in to every discussion. It's sad, but you're not the only one.
You agree that systemic racism exists yet you wish to do nothing about it because it's worse in other countries. Not a very noble stance but ok. Thanks for explaining your apathy to a human rights cause.
SmallTown
Well-known member
Is it fine though? I guess it depends, did you mean you like similar to the guy they found or simply that you were both gypsies?
If it's the latter then you yourself have been victim of discrimination and that just isn't right at all.
mitch_at_merseyside
Well-known member
Zero whataboutery from me.
Racism has been rife in the US, the UK and beyond, regardless of where you are in the world. I love the energy of this movement (minus the mobs of course) and it does feel like a really turning point. I am getting a bit sick of people jumping on the bandwagon who didn't give racism a second thought during the good times. I'm not going to turn this thread into racism towards other groups of people or comparing where racism is worse in other parts of the world.
My point is that racism towards blacks should be eradicated in all parts of the world, it goes well beyond our own western shores. Instead of turning on my TV and seeing the positive opinions and clips of this movement, Chinese state media use it as a tool to beat down our principles of democracy, the right to protest and the spread of propaganda. Yet these people live in a bubble and pretend racism doesn't exist within their own borders towards black people.
Racism has been rife in the US, the UK and beyond, regardless of where you are in the world. I love the energy of this movement (minus the mobs of course) and it does feel like a really turning point. I am getting a bit sick of people jumping on the bandwagon who didn't give racism a second thought during the good times. I'm not going to turn this thread into racism towards other groups of people or comparing where racism is worse in other parts of the world.
My point is that racism towards blacks should be eradicated in all parts of the world, it goes well beyond our own western shores. Instead of turning on my TV and seeing the positive opinions and clips of this movement, Chinese state media use it as a tool to beat down our principles of democracy, the right to protest and the spread of propaganda. Yet these people live in a bubble and pretend racism doesn't exist within their own borders towards black people.
HundredRoom
Well-known member
I do nothing about it because I can't. What do you suggest I do?
All I see is negativity - you can shout all the slogans you want.
Give me one positive thing you will do. Yes you.
SmallTown
Well-known member
It's hard I get that. But if you don't say it's wing that says it's right. So currently I just support the black lives matter movement through donations and social media. When it's possible in this country I'll join protests to get the voices heard.
HundredRoom
Well-known member
Really. Well good on you. I personally would stay away form these hate filled protests. The images we see are truly scary.
There was someone shouting Black Lives Matter into a BBC camera the other day who was in a state of hysteria and really does the cause no good.
I certainly would not want to be associated with anything but peaceful protest. But when the mob takes over then what will you do. ? go home? Would you denounce the violence and criminal damage there and then.?
I would not dare, through mob fear. And I guess you probably would not either.
Its a massive problem and Im old enough not to bother wasting energy on something I am completely powerless to change on a macro level.
There was a peaceful protest in Centre Square, Middlesbrough yesterday all keeping social distance and calling for Black lives to matter.
There is also the very strong personal protest of the young teenage girl in Acklam - standing with her homemade Black Lives Matters banner every day. These are people calling for changes in attitude and acceptance. Changes all of us could take on board.
There is also the very strong personal protest of the young teenage girl in Acklam - standing with her homemade Black Lives Matters banner every day. These are people calling for changes in attitude and acceptance. Changes all of us could take on board.
BlindBoyGrunt
Well-known member
Oh come on. there is a tiny minority of people causing trouble, as there is at nearly all protests. But you know what? They are the ones who make the news. People demonstrating for equality tend not to be hate filled.
SmallTown
Well-known member
Yes that's one of two very clear reasons why I can't join in a protest in this country at the moment. They have been hijacked by the ACAB crowd and are just reasons for violence. As soon as there can be peaceful protests I will be joining them. You clearly don't care about equality and that's fine I guess. A lot of people are like you, as long as they are fine they don't care about others being victimised .
atypical_boro
Well-known member
TBF I think it was fairly peaceful in Manchester.
SmallTown
Well-known member
That's good to know! I still couldn't join in due to coronavirus but as soon as we can and there are peaceful demos.
atypical_boro
Well-known member
Yeah I must admit I wouldn't fancy totally ignoring covid19 at the moment, once you join a mass protest like that mingling with 20,000 other people you might as well just stop social distancing at all.
If they want to do it though its up to them, but they should probably make loved ones aware they've been and are potential carriers etc.
HundredRoom
Well-known member
I thought you were anti personal digs but seems not
SmallTown
Well-known member
It's relevant to the conversation. You just decided to throw one in apropos of nothing, with no relation to the discussion.
My point is, you have said twice now you won't protest or do anything about the systemic racism that you admit exists. Therefore you are happy for it to continue, I assume you're white and therefore alright Jack.
HundredRoom
Well-known member
And what are you doing ? Who are you donating to ? What do they do with the money.?
What I do do if it counts for anything in your eyes is live my life with respect to everyone I come across.
Yes for the 3rd time I am doing nothing - I am not donating and I am not protesting , the 2 things you say that you are doing / will do and you evaluate that to mean I am condoning racism. I think you have extrapolated beyond what is reasonable
What I do do if it counts for anything in your eyes is live my life with respect to everyone I come across.
Yes for the 3rd time I am doing nothing - I am not donating and I am not protesting , the 2 things you say that you are doing / will do and you evaluate that to mean I am condoning racism. I think you have extrapolated beyond what is reasonable
SmallTown
Well-known member
Do you? It's pretty much a fact that if you acknowledge something is happening and you don't to anything about it then you don't care about it happening. You therefore condone the systemic racism that you acknowledge exists.
boromike85
Well-known member
I agree with the point Hundred is making about what can positive change are you suggesting instead of just ranting about the injustices of the past.
Someone earlier mentioned the number of black people in certain positions and we've had that same situation in football discussion in the past regarding black managers, and in those same positions mentioned like CEOs etc in respect of women. One thing that always seems to get ignored when just pulling out those stats is the time lag of making change to that change being reflected in society.
Football is a good example. In the 80s, 90s there was 1 or 2 black players in teams. It was noticeable if a team had a lot etc. There were racist chanting from the crowds. Now we don't really have that problem. I'm not saying racism has gone away, there are still racists, but they are no longer the majority i.e it is no longer systemic. The argument has now moved on to black managers but managers are usually ex players. We didn't have many black players in the past so the number of managers is not going to be representative of the current playing staff, it is representative of players from 10-20 years ago. That will change over time.
The issue I have a problem with in any of these measures to combat racism, sexism etc. is positive discrimination. In my opinion it should still be the best person for the role gets the job, not the best black person or the best woman but the best. That requires a levelling of the playing field from the ground up instead of just trying to solve the problem at the end which just furthers division. It's more difficult to do and takes longer but it is better in the long run otherwise it is just tokenism and ticking quotas. By making a point of hiring a woman specifically or a BAME then that is sexist/racist because you are using an irrelevant factor in the decision making and you will never end discrimination by constantly highlighting it.
I don't know how to solve the problem. In the US the biggest problem is that Black people make up a huge portion of the poorest economic group. The white people in that group suffer from the same lack of opportunities but they are lumped in with the successful white people in the stats so go unnoticed. To solve the problem quickly would require giving handouts to people based on race which won't solve any problems and will probably cause more. There won't be any distribution of wealth in America, they don't believe in it so the best they can hope for is moving the black people from the lowest economic group but that requires swapping to put some other group into their place. Who is that going to be and why is it any more fair?
Someone earlier mentioned the number of black people in certain positions and we've had that same situation in football discussion in the past regarding black managers, and in those same positions mentioned like CEOs etc in respect of women. One thing that always seems to get ignored when just pulling out those stats is the time lag of making change to that change being reflected in society.
Football is a good example. In the 80s, 90s there was 1 or 2 black players in teams. It was noticeable if a team had a lot etc. There were racist chanting from the crowds. Now we don't really have that problem. I'm not saying racism has gone away, there are still racists, but they are no longer the majority i.e it is no longer systemic. The argument has now moved on to black managers but managers are usually ex players. We didn't have many black players in the past so the number of managers is not going to be representative of the current playing staff, it is representative of players from 10-20 years ago. That will change over time.
The issue I have a problem with in any of these measures to combat racism, sexism etc. is positive discrimination. In my opinion it should still be the best person for the role gets the job, not the best black person or the best woman but the best. That requires a levelling of the playing field from the ground up instead of just trying to solve the problem at the end which just furthers division. It's more difficult to do and takes longer but it is better in the long run otherwise it is just tokenism and ticking quotas. By making a point of hiring a woman specifically or a BAME then that is sexist/racist because you are using an irrelevant factor in the decision making and you will never end discrimination by constantly highlighting it.
I don't know how to solve the problem. In the US the biggest problem is that Black people make up a huge portion of the poorest economic group. The white people in that group suffer from the same lack of opportunities but they are lumped in with the successful white people in the stats so go unnoticed. To solve the problem quickly would require giving handouts to people based on race which won't solve any problems and will probably cause more. There won't be any distribution of wealth in America, they don't believe in it so the best they can hope for is moving the black people from the lowest economic group but that requires swapping to put some other group into their place. Who is that going to be and why is it any more fair?