It's getting worse as the season goes on.
Hate to say it but Wilder has to go
- Thread starter InglebyUTB
- Start date
It's getting worse as the season goes on.
R
rbmfc1985
Guest
Yet we still have the entire defense who just missed out on the playoffs last season. And have all but one of the same midfield. Clearly there is a style that would work with them.
I think you're giving him too much credit tbh.
He's the one who was blabbing on about attitude over ability. He's the one who's chased Payero out the club.
It's easy after the end of the window to say oh the club let Wilder down by not getting the signings everyone liked the sound of in - £15m giant nordic strikers and Arsenal youth midfielders. Remember if Wilder had his way we'd never have even been in for these players cause we'd have had Dwight Gayle sewn up on a ridiculous contract 2 months earlier.
Dirtyderekbracken
Active member
That team selection, in my eyes , was a F**k you to the fans and his management.. In the form of .. I’ll hit you and hurt you in the place where you can’t touch me .. time to go .. get rid ..
uncle_rico
Well-known member
How many players did we sign this summer? Apart from not replacing Tav we have a better squad than at the end of last season.
Reminds me of the one match Karanka played 2 up front and then made some remark about how much the fans will have enjoyed seeing us lose.
Dirtyderekbracken
Active member
Pretty much .. that selection was a F.. U to all of us… he’s a nothing in my mind now.. just delete him and move on .. in the greater scheme of our club and our town ..he’s a non entity ..
Kepler442b
Active member
It's sad because when Wilderball works, it's fantastic to watch. Unfortunately, it clearly is not working right now. We need to salvage what we can at this stage.
Andy_W
Well-known member
The defenders are making a hell of a lot more errors this year.
The one midfielder missing was our best one, who is now playing in the Prem.
Howson's not playing anywhere near as well as last year, which is understandable as he's now 35, but he's making some bad errors too. He's playing in the exact same position as last year.
Crooks isn't playing as well as last year, and not chipping in with a goal threat either. He's playing in the exact same position as last year.
So to summarise, we sold the best, and last years players are making mistakes and/ or have dropped in form. This isn't something that would be simple for any manager to fix.
Which style/ formation would suit them?
I think the one we're playing suits them most, but has about 5 gaping holes:
LCB who is left-footed, but also who is good (Clarke isn't good enough, the Hull lad was)
Three centre midfielders
Second Striker or the main Striker. I really, really like Muniz, but he shouldn't be our only threat, he's 21 and not played a lot of senior games.
Expat Smoggie
Well-known member
Personally I just think it’s more about the basics, like passing and tackling which is where we’re losing the battle.
Ok we can go on about formations etc but the team doesn’t tackle except for maybe Fry and Smith, and if you don’t win tackles you generally lose.
When you review the first 15 minutes we hardly had a meaningful touch, and that’s despite having being setup defensively. But where I believe Wilder is ultimately responsible is getting the team motivated, as we seem so flat in every game and by the time we get moving it’s when we’re behind.
As for the players are they really all duds? Clearly not, as we have plenty of flair on the team but CW doesn’t seem to use it correctly.
If you remember CW final season at Sheff u he also had them setup the same way but they couldn’t score, and in the end when scoring becomes a chore I think you have look at the coaching and management and decide if it’s their fault.
Let’s face it the story seems to be the same for every game— boring, no fight, poor start, no tackles, passing on a schoolboy level, and then we concede.
Ok we can go on about formations etc but the team doesn’t tackle except for maybe Fry and Smith, and if you don’t win tackles you generally lose.
When you review the first 15 minutes we hardly had a meaningful touch, and that’s despite having being setup defensively. But where I believe Wilder is ultimately responsible is getting the team motivated, as we seem so flat in every game and by the time we get moving it’s when we’re behind.
As for the players are they really all duds? Clearly not, as we have plenty of flair on the team but CW doesn’t seem to use it correctly.
If you remember CW final season at Sheff u he also had them setup the same way but they couldn’t score, and in the end when scoring becomes a chore I think you have look at the coaching and management and decide if it’s their fault.
Let’s face it the story seems to be the same for every game— boring, no fight, poor start, no tackles, passing on a schoolboy level, and then we concede.
Andy_W
Well-known member
We bought one player, who gets in the side, and he was far from the first choice.
We sold our best player from last year, the other good players from last year are making a lot of individual mistakes, or don't have the same freedom due to who we've sold or what we've brought in.
Giles and Muniz are massive improvements, but Giles comes at a cost defensively (I'm fine with this), but he's only had one target to aim at (Muniz). Watmore isn't much of a crossing target, and can't even hit a barn door when it's at his feet in front of goal (at least he tries hard mind). Crooks can't get in the box like last year, as he has no Tav to cover him, and he has to think about covering for Mowatt. I think McGree would have started today instead of Mowatt, had he not played two games in the break.
Next game I expect us to start Lenihan, Giles, Jones, McGree and Chuba, which would be our best XI for me. So, Steffen, Bola, Lenihan, Dijk, Jones, Giles, Howson, Mcgree, Crooks, Chuba, Muniz. That team might scrape play offs if we have a very good run.
I'm concerned about the last few games but was positive before that, if we go back to that things will turn around.
I think I overestimated how good our midfield could still be, I knew Tav would be a massive loss, but it appears catastrophic, as he was clearly helping the others (Crooks and Howson) play better/ more freely too, even more than I knew he was doing. Now Crooks and Howson are covering for Mowatt, but nobody is helping them. Mowatt is not good enough for any team in this league and clearly can't replace a Prem Level Centre mid with massive energy, which is worth its weight in gold for us, more than any other side.
We risk more playing Giles and Jones (which I'm fine with), but we need the defence and centre mid to cover better for that, but they're not playing at last years level in the last few games, never mind upping that level. It's a waste playing two wingers when we only have one striker who is good enough. Wingers don't work with one striker.
The way I see this now is a rebuilding year, the mistakes will hopefully stop but the midfield will never be good enough, or get younger.
We need a leader in the 10 outfield players, which I think Lenihan can do, the players respect Howson but I don't think he's commanding enough, and we need to get him off set pieces and put Giles on everything or play shorter balls where set pieces suit a right footer.
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Blackburn away but we actually didn’t play 2 up front, just two strikers with one stuck on the wing (as usual)
indeedido
Well-known member
It is not either or, it is both.
The transfer window stuff is absolutely not just noise.
But we still should be higher than 22nd.
Jonny Ingbar
Well-known member
It all depends upon whether the squad are behind him or not and none of us know that.
We can guess of course, but thats all wed be doing..
So if the time is right for him to go, then he will, but I suspect we're not at that point and he'll get some more time yet.
We can guess of course, but thats all wed be doing..
So if the time is right for him to go, then he will, but I suspect we're not at that point and he'll get some more time yet.
indeedido
Well-known member
I agree with everything other than Lenihan.
I would far rather play Fry and I'm sure he will play.
uncle_rico
Well-known member
Based on what though? We’ve had flashes this season but it’s nowhere near enough and the results have been terrible. I’m not sure on what grounds he deserves to get more time?
r00fie1
Well-known member
Frankly.
I back wilder above and beyond anyone else at the club.
I`de support him, even if we avoid relegation by a point this season.
As I posted elsewhere - the elephant in the room has been ignored whilst we sack Managers like shelling peas.
Including Karanka, we have had eight Managers in 5 years! [Yes 8!].
No one is going to convince me that Manager no. 9 in 5 years is going to get us to the promised land.
What evidence do we have ?
The belief that the next Manager is going to be the right one...is self-deluded...[after the previous "next" Manager, before the "next" Manager before that....]
Our collective psyche` is like a heroine addict who needs their next fix.
The chilled warm glow fades and the withdrawal sets in.
The mental pain and craving returns......
So off we go for our next fix......
Big picture time.
Some of the comments on twitter and other media platforms are frankly unacceptable about Chris Wilder.
If the baying dogs get their way and he leaves the club........what do they expect?
The new "messiah"?
Meanwhile, the elephant is still in the room.
I back wilder above and beyond anyone else at the club.
I`de support him, even if we avoid relegation by a point this season.
As I posted elsewhere - the elephant in the room has been ignored whilst we sack Managers like shelling peas.
Including Karanka, we have had eight Managers in 5 years! [Yes 8!].
No one is going to convince me that Manager no. 9 in 5 years is going to get us to the promised land.
What evidence do we have ?
The belief that the next Manager is going to be the right one...is self-deluded...[after the previous "next" Manager, before the "next" Manager before that....]
Our collective psyche` is like a heroine addict who needs their next fix.
The chilled warm glow fades and the withdrawal sets in.
The mental pain and craving returns......
So off we go for our next fix......
Big picture time.
Some of the comments on twitter and other media platforms are frankly unacceptable about Chris Wilder.
If the baying dogs get their way and he leaves the club........what do they expect?
The new "messiah"?
Meanwhile, the elephant is still in the room.
Andy_W
Well-known member
What system would you play and which formation?
Why would you think that would work better?
Andy_W
Well-known member
Nah, Fry plays too many long balls, and switches off far too often and drops others in it. He's no leader either, doesn't seem like the type to pick the others up, as much as most lead centre defenders. He is getting better with trying to cut out the long ball though.
When Lenihan is not playing, the only time we ever seem to change attitude/ approach after going a goal down is at halftime, when the manager speaks to them. Nobody on the pitch can get them going when going a goal down, and it's absolutely crucial to have that organisation.