George Floyd

Heam44

Well-known member
Yes, his excessive shootings which are way in excess of otherr offices, would be one, A closed file of an assault on a woman who was dragged out of herr car, put in the squad car and detained for 15 minutes. Herr payoff from Mineapolis meant she couldn't talk about what happened in the squad car. Look a little deeper. His disciplinary record is worse than average and his rate of using his sidearm are way above average.

Tau caused a payout by minneapolis after beating the crap out of a black man that was handcuffed and restrained on the floor.

If you're arguing for arguments sake, cool, I like a bicker, but if you have an actual point that Chauvin probably isn't a racist you would be wrong.
I’m not arguing, I was just curious how you came to the conclusion that Chauvin and the other officers were racist. I thought I’d ask you as you seem to have taken far more interest in the case that most others on the board, if not everybody else.

Is the lady in the assault in the car BAME?

Were the excessive shootings involving mostly BAME people?
 

Laughing

Well-known member
I’m not arguing, I was just curious how you came to the conclusion that Chauvin and the other officers were racist. I thought I’d ask you as you seem to have taken far more interest in the case that most others on the board, if not everybody else.

Is the lady in the assault in the car BAME?

Were the excessive shootings involving mostly BAME people?
Yes they were all black folks involved. It's difficult to know what happened with the lady dragged out of her car as she signed an nda for the payoff. What we do know is that chauvin and another officer stopped her car, approached the car, reached in through the window, opened her door and forced her out of the car. She had a toddler who was left in the car whilst the officers put her in the squad car. She was in the squad car for 15 minutes and released with no further action. She was stopped for exceeding the speed limit by 10 mph.

Make of that what you will. I am not going to speculate on what happened during those unreported 15 minutes. Suffice to say that neither officer switched on their body cams
 

Heam44

Well-known member
Yes they were all black folks involved. It's difficult to know what happened with the lady dragged out of her car as she signed an nda for the payoff. What we do know is that chauvin and another officer stopped her car, approached the car, reached in through the window, opened her door and forced her out of the car. She had a toddler who was left in the car whilst the officers put her in the squad car. She was in the squad car for 15 minutes and released with no further action. She was stopped for exceeding the speed limit by 10 mph.

Make of that what you will. I am not going to speculate on what happened during those unreported 15 minutes. Suffice to say that neither officer switched on their body cams
Are you sure all involved were black?

A quick google states that of the 3 shooting incidents he was involved in, one of the males was black, the other two were native Americans.
 

Laughing

Well-known member
Are you sure all involved were black?

A quick google states that of the 3 shooting incidents he was involved in, one of the males was black, the other two were native Americans.
I may have got that wrong, but I don't think so, it may be they were described as something other than white in the reports I looked at, and I made the assumption.
 

Abel Tasman

Well-known member
Damaging testimony today. Police lieutenant from Minneapolis Police Dept has testified that the knee on the neck was totally unjustified. That will nail Chauvin.
For me that was the most inportant moment of the trial to date when the lieutenant took the stand and gave his views as an officer of the Minneapolis Police Dept. The defence may work to neutralise this testimony but it is powerful and pertinent.
 

FatCat

Well-known member
It has to be unanimous FC. If the jury is hung it is a mistrial, even if 11-1.
I would say the odds are then stacked in Chauvins favour - either through the defence convincing one of the jurors or simply one of the jurors could be racist.

Then I guess it just depends how much appetite and money they have to retry it.
 

Laughing

Well-known member
For me that was the most inportant moment of the trial to date when the lieutenant took the stand and gave his views as an officer of the Minneapolis Police Dept. The defence may work to neutralise this testimony but it is powerful and pertinent.
You are right it was damming testimony. Lt. Zimmerman came across as measured and considered. He will have carried a lot of weight with the jury. 2 points that the defence made were firstly that Zimmerman was not responsible for training police officers and secondly that he did not review all the video evidence.

The defence also managed to make the point that sometimes prisoners who have been rendered unconscious sometimes wake up and become more combative.

They were small wins for the defence, but may be significant depending on how they put their own case together.
 

Laughing

Well-known member
I would say the odds are then stacked in Chauvins favour - either through the defence convincing one of the jurors or simply one of the jurors could be racist.

Then I guess it just depends how much appetite and money they have to retry it.
Whilst they need a unanimous verdict they usually get one in us trials. Judges are not afraid to keep sending jurors back to reconsider. I suspect, but don't know, that the judge essentially bullies the jurors you only get a hung jury when you have an even split. If you have say 10 v 2 the judge will just keep them deliberating until they get a12 v 0 verdict.

You have to remember that between 94 and 97 percent of defendents never go to trial and cop a plea. That means a court can generally keep a jury enpanelled for as long as its necessary. In the uk most verdicts are reached in a couple of hours.

I would be a little surprised with a hung jury given the political and racial powder keg this case is.

94 percent of jury trials end in a conviction or acquittal,so it is very likely there will be a verdict. When a verdict is reached 74% of the time the defendant is found guilty of at least 1 of the charges.

The USA have a terrible judicial system. Its supposed to be based on ours, it isn't.
 

Liamo

Well-known member
What’s in Chauvins record that suggests he’s racist?

I thought they pointed a gun at him because he didn’t show his hands / put them on the steering wheel after numerous requests to do so?
I've no idea if it makes him a racist (wouldn't appear to, on the face of it) but Chauvin does seem to have a habit of using excessive force - and specifically a tendency towards an excessive and unnecessary use of neck restraints.

The prosecution compiled a list of seven previous incidents involving neck restraints which they argue, show:
Chauvin held the restraints “beyond the point when such force was needed under the circumstances.”

Chauvin used neck restraints in previous arrests

In one particular incident, which was caught on a body cam he knelt on a child's neck for 17 minutes including a period where the boy appeared to lose consciousness.
In the footage, a 14-year-old child is seen gasping for air on the ground while Chauvin ignores his plea for help, saying he can’t breathe.

Derek Chauvin suffocated a 14-year-old boy until he fainted
 

Heam44

Well-known member
I've no idea if it makes him a racist (wouldn't appear to, on the face of it) but Chauvin does seem to have a habit of using excessive force - and specifically a tendency towards an excessive and unnecessary use of neck restraints.

The prosecution compiled a list of seven previous incidents involving neck restraints which they argue, show:


Chauvin used neck restraints in previous arrests

In one particular incident, which was caught on a body cam he knelt on a child's neck for 17 minutes including a period where the boy appeared to lose consciousness.


Derek Chauvin suffocated a 14-year-old boy until he fainted
I don’t think anyone could dispute the use of excessive force. It’s fairly obvious what could happen if you kneel on someone’s neck for a prolonged period of time.
 
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Laughing

Well-known member
I've no idea if it makes him a racist (wouldn't appear to, on the face of it) but Chauvin does seem to have a habit of using excessive force - and specifically a tendency towards an excessive and unnecessary use of neck restraints.

The prosecution compiled a list of seven previous incidents involving neck restraints which they argue, show:


Chauvin used neck restraints in previous arrests

In one particular incident, which was caught on a body cam he knelt on a child's neck for 17 minutes including a period where the boy appeared to lose consciousness.


Derek Chauvin suffocated a 14-year-old boy until he fainted
If the video of the child is allowed into evidence Chauvin is done. I can't see it being allowed into evidence though. Prior bad acts are generally allowed as evidence if they show a pattern of behaviour pertinent to the current case. The video clearly does that. Howeverr, the defence will argue that it taints the jury beyond it's evidential value. The evidence has to pass this test to be admitted, I don't think it does, but hope it is still allowed.

Chauvins appeal will start right there if it is admitted.

On a slightly different subject I would be a bit suscpicious of that link, it looks like it was witten by someone who doesn't speak english. Or was that just me?
 

Liamo

Well-known member
If the video of the child is allowed into evidence Chauvin is done. I can't see it being allowed into evidence though. Prior bad acts are generally allowed as evidence if they show a pattern of behaviour pertinent to the current case. The video clearly does that. Howeverr, the defence will argue that it taints the jury beyond it's evidential value. The evidence has to pass this test to be admitted, I don't think it does, but hope it is still allowed.

Chauvins appeal will start right there if it is admitted.
It won't be allowed in. The judge already ruled it inadmissible, for the reasons you give.

In total, the judge ruled that only two prior incidents will be admissible, including one where the suspect, after being restrained was put into the recovery position and where Chauvin was actually given a commendation for his part in it.
 
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Liamo

Well-known member
On a slightly different subject I would be a bit suscpicious of that link, it looks like it was witten by someone who doesn't speak english. Or was that just me?
There are plenty of other links to the same story. Here's another with better grammar, which mentions that:
[Prosecutors] say the body cam video shows Derek Chauvin hitting a 14-year-old boy in the head with a flashlight twice before kneeling on his back for 17 minutes, despite the boy’s pleas that he couldn’t breathe.

Prosecutors say Chauvin kept his knee on teenager’s back for 17 minutes in 2017, while the boy said ‘I can’t breathe’
 

Laughing

Well-known member
It won't be allowed in. The judge already ruled it inadmissible, for the reasons you give.

In total, the judge ruled that only two prior incidents will be admissible, including one where the suspect, after being restrained was put into the recovery position and where Chauvin was actually given a commendation for his part in it.
Not watched monday's trial proceedings yet Liamo. Whilst it is very frustrating that so much evidence is deemed inadmissable, it would be inadmissable in a UK court too, by and large. Our legal system dictates that prior behaviour, even if convicted, should not be used to decide guilt in the current proceedings.

It can be considered when considering sentencing though.

Rendering a 14 year old boy unconscious whilst restraining him would definitely prejudice the jury, and it should do. I think this kind of evidence is generally inadmissable for a different reason. Imagine you were on a jury deciding the guilt or innocence of a defendent on a burglary charge and you heard that he had been convicted 3 previous times. On balance you would think it is likely that he was guilty to the detriment of other evidence.

Frustrating, but the prosecution have a very strong case.
 

Randy

Well-known member
There are plenty of other links to the same story. Here's another with better grammar, which mentions that:


Prosecutors say Chauvin kept his knee on teenager’s back for 17 minutes in 2017, while the boy said ‘I can’t breathe’
If a copper had done that to one of my kids he'd be seriously ill and I'd be in jail.

Didn't been a police officer once mean you were there to protect your local community? Nowadays it's seems like they are all on power trips, no wonder they don't get the respect they ask for.
 

Laughing

Well-known member
If a copper had done that to one of my kids he'd be seriously ill and I'd be in jail.

Didn't been a police officer once mean you were there to protect your local community? Nowadays it's seems like they are all on power trips, no wonder they don't get the respect they ask for.
If it was in the USA you would be shot Randy. That's why the bystanders looked on instead of helping.

We complain about our police being heavy handed but we are still policed by consent, US citizens are not.
 

Randy

Well-known member
If it was in the USA you would be shot Randy. That's why the bystanders looked on instead of helping.

We complain about our police being heavy handed but we are still policed by consent, US citizens are not.
I'd take my chances Laughing. Nobody and I mean nobody commits an act of violence like that on one of my kids.
 
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