Genuine question for EV owners

Changing the oil and filter is a very easy thing to do and doesn't cost much. Things like spark plugs and cam belts are also run of the mill jobs for nearly every mechanic out there. My vehicle has a cam belt kit, aux belts and water pump change every 10 years or 100,000 miles. It costs me £350 at a specialist. Some will pay a lot more - if you just rock up at the main dealer. But of course you don't do that, unless you're an EV owner where you'll be probably locked into the main dealer estate.

Although an EV doesn't have as many moving parts, they are replaced by technology and computers. How does £1000 for a software update sound compared to £100 for an oil and filter change? Or £10,000 for a new battery perhaps. When things go wrong with these EVs, they will likely be expensive.

Also, a word of warning about warranties. Manufacturers will often not play ball if the vehicle is still running reasonably well. For instance, say a battery isn't performing as it should, the manufacturer won't replace it. They'll likely do something with the software that won't really fix the problem. That will be then a long term problem that doesn't get fixed. There's all sorts of examples out there where warranties aren't what they seem. Don't go banking on one to get all problems sorted.
Might be for you (and me also), but my bet is >95% don't know how to do a basic filter change. I've known timing belts/ cambelts write off cars with 50k miles on them, and I've had electronics in about 3 ICE cars disable them completely (all outside warranty, none of them were cheaper than £1,000 to fix).
I would go to the dealer, as my car has an 8 year/ 100k miles warranty, and it won't cost me a penny. My servicing is only £200 a year too. See what the warranty and servicing cost is on a decent ICE Suv, after 4 years/ 50k miles. My bet is no warranty left and some services costing near £750, well it's not a bet, as I've had it on about 10 cars. No more discs and pads for me either, add that to the list, I can do those myself also, but for 99% of people that's a garage job every 3-5 years.

I've never had to pay for a software update, never had to go into the garage for one either, just get a notification every few months that one happened when I was asleep. Seemingly Tesla (who have been doing this a while) have been giving them out for free, and improving their cars for nearly a decade.

You last paragraph also applies to ICE's (with more parts outside the warranty). If you can't get a manufacturer to abide by their own T's&C's, that's your fault, I've never had any warranty issue (as in a problem not claiming it) on any car, other than where I've not used manufacturer parts, but even then I still got covered. You're more likely to have an issue using a non-dealer/ specialist if they're not using manufacturer approved parts. Again, been there, been doing that for 20 years. My battery is covered to be >90% capacity after 8 years/ 100k miles, they're very specific on that. There is a reserve which can be tapped into with a software update (which is free), so could find that there's no useable range loss, in that time and could actually go up with software updates. It's irrelevant to me I'll be swapping every few years anyway, as the TCO savings make it so simple to do this, and all the time getting the latest tech and comforts. After another two changes there will be no new ICE cars to buy, and after one more change (around 2025) the ICE market will be much smaller (as all manufacturers are saying).

You're talking like none of us have owned an ICE vehicle, I've had about 20 (missus has had about 10), I've still got another (as a toy), and the missus is ICE too, and run another 4/5 in my company fleet (vans/ wagons).

I don't actually know anyone who has got an EV and then gone back to ICE, and only seen one or two mentions of it in this thread, says a lot, considering every EV owner on here has probably had 10-20 ICE cars, given the average age of users on here.

My mate just sold the EV he got new, for 15% more than he paid for it, and he's gone and bought another EV unsurprisingly.
 
Seemingly Tesla (who have been doing this a while) have been giving them out for free, and improving their cars for nearly a decade.
FWIW I can confirm this is true. My car recieves regular OTA updates. One even famously gave the car more power! How wild is that? Waking up one morning to find your car not only sufficiently fuelled but actually more powerful than when you went to bed.

The latest update added a safety feature only seen before on Hyundai group cars: Blind spot monitoring cameras. So when you indicate a camera come up on the screen to show you a live feed of your blind spot. It actually blows my mind that such a useful safety feature can just be added overnight.
 
My director of quality has a polestar and he really likes it a lot. I rate it, then again I rate the XC40 it's based on too. That would be my car of choice. I've heard the mustang is a pretyt cheap car inside so not sure how well it'll hold up before the squeaks and rattles appear. This is one clear EV drawback btw. Squeaks and rattle are more prominent because they aren't drowned out by engine noise.

Special shout out should be to the ID.4 as well, It's worth a test drive. I like the interior, it's kind of quirky but the OH test drove it's little brother and hated it. The only reason I mentioned it is it's the only one on the list that is a ground up EV. All the others are converted ICE which means the packaging isn't optimal (The polestar, for example, has the lump in the floor that would have been the XC40s transmission tunnel. Not needed on an EV.

Sorry I know that's not an answer but I would favour the polestar but consider the ID4
I get the transmission tunnel thing.

On my Volvo its where they have packaged the batteries, so you end up with a huge boot, whereas with the BMW 530e I test drove, the batteries were in the boot meaning you had very shallow not very uselful boot space.
 
So, seeing as there are lots of people on this thread with way more real world experience of full EV's than I have, given the choice of potential company cars that I will have in the next 6 months or so, which would you get if it were your choice?

If I sort by range, then these are the top few;

VehicleElectric Range
FORD MUSTANG MACH-E ESTATE (2020) 216kW Extended Range 88kWh RWD 5dr Auto 2021379 Miles
SKODA ENYAQ IV ESTATE (2021) 150kW 80 Lodge 82kWh 5dr Auto 2021333 Miles
SKODA ENYAQ IV ESTATE (2021) 150kW 80 Loft 82kWh 5dr Auto 2021333 Miles
SKODA ENYAQ IV ESTATE (2021) 150kW 80 Lounge 82kWh 5dr Auto 2021333 Miles
SKODA ENYAQ IV ESTATE (2021) 150kW 80 Suite 82kWh 5dr Auto 2021332 Miles
SKODA ENYAQ IV ESTATE (2021) 150kW 80 ecoSuite 82kWh 5dr Auto 2021332 Miles
SKODA ENYAQ IV ESTATE (2021) 150kW 80 Suite 82kWh 5dr Auto [125kW] 2022329 Miles
SKODA ENYAQ IV ESTATE (2021) 150kW 80 Sportline 82kWh 5dr Auto 2021327 Miles
SKODA ENYAQ IV ESTATE (2021) 150kW 80 Sportline 82kWh 5dr Auto [125kW] 2022323 Miles
VOLKSWAGEN ID.4 ELECTRIC ESTATE (2021) 150kW Life Pro Performance 77kWh 5dr Auto 2021323 Miles
VOLKSWAGEN ID.4 ELECTRIC ESTATE (2021) 150kW Family Pro Performance 77kWh 5dr Auto 2021318 Miles
AUDI Q4 E-TRON ESTATE (2021) 150kW 40 82.77kWh Sport 5dr Auto 2022317 Miles
POLESTAR 2 FASTBACK (2021) 170kW 78kWh Long Range SM [Pilot] 5dr Auto 2022317 Miles
POLESTAR 2 FASTBACK (2021) 170kW 78kWh Long Range SM [Plus] 5dr Auto 2022317 Miles
POLESTAR 2 FASTBACK (2021) 170kW 78kWh Long Range Single motor 5dr Auto 2022317 Miles
VOLKSWAGEN ID.4 ELECTRIC ESTATE (2021) 150kW Max Pro Performance 77kWh 5dr Auto 2021314 Miles

If I sort by purchase cost (not cost to me) then these are the top few;


VehicleList priceElectric Range
MERCEDES-BENZ EQC ESTATE (2019) EQC 400 300kW AMG Line 80kWh 5dr Auto 2022.5
57100​
245
MERCEDES-BENZ EQC ESTATE (2019) EQC 400 300kW Sport 80kWh 5dr Auto 2022.5
55437.5​
255
VOLVO C40 ESTATE (2021) 300kW Recharge Twin Ultimate 78kWh 5dr AWD Auto 2023
48416.67​
273.4
VOLVO XC40 ELECTRIC ESTATE (2020) 300kW Recharge Twin Ultimate 78kWh 5dr AWD Auto 2023
47708.33​
256.6
MERCEDES-BENZ EQB ESTATE (2021) EQB 350 4M 215kW AMG Line Premium 66.5kWh 5dr Auto 2022.5
46541.67​
250
VOLVO C40 ESTATE (2021) 300kW Recharge Twin Plus 78kWh 5dr AWD Auto 2023
45625​
274
MERCEDES-BENZ EQB ESTATE (2021) EQB 300 4M 168kW AMG Line Premium 66.5kWh 5dr Auto 2022.5
45291.67​
250
VOLVO XC40 ELECTRIC ESTATE (2020) 300kW Recharge Twin Plus 78kWh 5dr AWD Auto 2023
44583.33​
259.1
MERCEDES-BENZ EQA HATCHBACK (2021) EQA 350 4M 215kW AMG Line Premium 66.5kWh 5dr Auto 2022.5
44458.33​
258
VOLVO C40 ESTATE (2021) 170kW Recharge Ultimate 69kWh 5dr Auto 2023
44250​
269.1
MERCEDES-BENZ EQB ESTATE (2021) EQB 350 4Matic 215kW AMG Line 66.5kWh 5dr Auto 2022.5
44041.67​
257
VOLVO XC40 ELECTRIC ESTATE (2020) 170kW Recharge Ultimate 69kWh 5dr Auto 2023
43541.67​
258.5
VOLVO XC40 ELECTRIC ESTATE (2020) 300kW Recharge Twin Plus 78kWh 5dr AWD Auto 2022
43458.33​
259 Miles
MERCEDES-BENZ EQA HATCHBACK (2021) EQA 300 4M 168kW AMG Line Premium 66.5kWh 5dr Auto 2022.5
43208.33​
258
LEXUS UX ELECTRIC HATCHBACK (2020) 300e 150kW 54.3 kWh 5dr E-CVT [Takumi Pack] 2021
42886.67​
190 Miles
MERCEDES-BENZ EQB ESTATE (2021) EQB 300 4Matic 168kW AMG Line 66.5kWh 5dr Auto 2022.5
42791.67​
257
VOLKSWAGEN ID.4 ELECTRIC ESTATE (2021) 150kW Max Pro Performance 77kWh 5dr Auto[135kW Ch] 2022.5
42370.83​
308
FORD MUSTANG MACH-E ESTATE (2020) 198kW Standard Range 70kWh AWD 5dr Auto 2022.2
42308.33​
248
MERCEDES-BENZ EQA HATCHBACK (2021) EQA 350 4Matic 215kW AMG Line 66.5kWh 5dr Auto 2022.5
41958.33​
264
FORD MUSTANG MACH-E ESTATE (2020) 216kW Extended Range 88kWh RWD 5dr Auto 2021
41583.33​
379 Miles

I must admit I do like the look of the Polestar, but I dont know anyone who has driven one yet alone owned one.

and the Ford Mustang mach E is just wrong on every level.
I've got the Premium Plus EQC, and it's been fantastic. I probably wouldn't have chose that spec, but got it on a good 1% finance deal, and walked away with it that week, which mattered to me.

I wouldn't worry too much about range, unless you do a 500 mile round trip every week, but knock 20% of those ranges in winter if doing a motorway trip. If you can get something with 250 miles range, then you're good for a 200 mile trip in winter down the motorway, which should cover most scenarios. But pay attention to battery size and max charging speed, this will be more critical as means a faster charge.

The polestar can charge at 150kW which is good, and for that list I wouldn't consider anything with less capability than 100kW if doing loads of miles, but most of those should do that.

I think the ID4 looks great, and should be a good buy, especially for residuals but it doesn't seem like that will matter to you?
In your position, or if I was choosing from that list for me personally then I'd probably go for the Polestar 2 or something else which has come out more recently like one of the Volvo's. Can you not get a BMW? Their new electrics have great range, charge quick and look smart.

I wouldn't get the Ford, but would never get a Ford to be honest.
 
I get the transmission tunnel thing.

On my Volvo its where they have packaged the batteries, so you end up with a huge boot, whereas with the BMW 530e I test drove, the batteries were in the boot meaning you had very shallow not very uselful boot space.
My EQC has the transmission tunnel, and you can tell it's adapted from the GLC, but to be honest it's not something which has hindered me. Back then there wasn't as much choice so wasn't even in my thinking then.

Most of the EV's designed from the ground up seem to get a frunk, I didn't get one of those, but the boot is big.
 
I get the transmission tunnel thing.

On my Volvo its where they have packaged the batteries, so you end up with a huge boot, whereas with the BMW 530e I test drove, the batteries were in the boot meaning you had very shallow not very uselful boot space.
Honestly I’m not being funny and I hate to be labour the point but hybrids and EVs are distinctly different vehicles. There is a need to put hybrid batteries in a boot because of all the drivetrain gubbins. EV don’t have this issue and really need to be packaged better. I hate to mention Tesla because people make the mistake of thinking they are the only EV but they do show the significance of designing an EV from fresh. They have their batteries flat to the floor which has significant advantages as far as storage goes. And it also helps my car which is crazy heavy for a performance saloon and way heavier than it’s rival the BMW M3 but the battery placement helps here as the centre of gravity is so low, meaning the handling isn’t as compromised as it should be.

I’m actually amazed that the Porsche Taycan has a “transmission tunnel” though. No idea why they did that
 
I've got the Premium Plus EQC, and it's been fantastic. I probably wouldn't have chose that spec, but got it on a good 1% finance deal, and walked away with it that week, which mattered to me.

I wouldn't worry too much about range, unless you do a 500 mile round trip every week, but knock 20% of those ranges in winter if doing a motorway trip. If you can get something with 250 miles range, then you're good for a 200 mile trip in winter down the motorway, which should cover most scenarios. But pay attention to battery size and max charging speed, this will be more critical as means a faster charge.

The polestar can charge at 150kW which is good, and for that list I wouldn't consider anything with less capability than 100kW if doing loads of miles, but most of those should do that.

I think the ID4 looks great, and should be a good buy, especially for residuals but it doesn't seem like that will matter to you?
In your position, or if I was choosing from that list for me personally then I'd probably go for the Polestar 2 or something else which has come out more recently like one of the Volvo's. Can you not get a BMW? Their new electrics have great range, charge quick and look smart.

I wouldn't get the Ford, but would never get a Ford to be honest.
I do a 500 mile round trip twice a month which is why I went Tesla - both for the range but also more the charging infrastructure
 
Honestly I’m not being funny and I hate to be labour the point but hybrids and EVs are distinctly different vehicles. There is a need to put hybrid batteries in a boot because of all the drivetrain gubbins. EV don’t have this issue and really need to be packaged better. I hate to mention Tesla because people make the mistake of thinking they are the only EV but they do show the significance of designing an EV from fresh. They have their batteries flat to the floor which has significant advantages as far as storage goes. And it also helps my car which is crazy heavy for a performance saloon and way heavier than it’s rival the BMW M3 but the battery placement helps here as the centre of gravity is so low, meaning the handling isn’t as compromised as it should be.

I’m actually amazed that the Porsche Taycan has a “transmission tunnel” though. No idea why they did that
I guess it solely down to cost. It is eyewateringly expensive to develop an whole new platform for a car maker, but its something they will all be doing for 3 to 5 years time when existing models are completely replaced and EV's are designed from the ground up. In the meantime its a lower cost option to change current platforms as a stop gap.

Its far from ideal to have to integrate and package an EV drivetrain into an existing platform, and there are definitely compromises that need to be made

Some makers are further ahead just due to the development cycles and timing. Even with a increasing EV adoption rate, car makers will still rely on conventional cars to pay the bills and fund future EV R+D for the next 10 years. I am guessing we will see even more platform, battery, fuel cell and other technology sharing across manufacturers. I think this can only help.
 
I do a 500 mile round trip twice a month which is why I went Tesla - both for the range but also more the charging infrastructure
Yeah that makes sense, sounds like you made the right choice.

I've only used a public charger about 10 times in a year and a half, so not been really relevant for me.

I think the rest will catch up and overtake for charging infrastructure, but of course you can use those too. Tesla might even open theirs up to others, which I know they had been trialling.

Looking forward to more 350kW chargers coming out, they make a hell of a difference if the car can take it.
 
Looking forward to more 350kW chargers coming out, they make a hell of a difference if the car can take it.

There is also a balance to be made between charging rate and potential battery life, but the chemistry is getting better very quickly.
 
There is also a balance to be made between charging rate and potential battery life, but the chemistry is getting better very quickly.
Yeah I think they only ramp up to max speed for the mid duration of the charge anyway, and don't think they degrade less, as although they're pulling more current it's at a higher voltage with bigger/ safer cables. Not sure how this is then distributed into the batteries, but you would hope it's only equal to that of a slower charger/ the battery is designed to take it, and I know they handle the cooling of it better. It's hard to find any good details on this though, unfortunately.

Houses are on 240v, rapid chargers are around 480 I think, but the new super quick ones use 800-960v.
 
Where is all the power coming from for the huge increase? Where is the fuel coming from for the batteries? How do we dispose of the batteries?

I fear this is the next environmental disaster we will sending to poor countries.
 
Where is all the power coming from for the huge increase? Where is the fuel coming from for the batteries? How do we dispose of the batteries?

I fear this is the next environmental disaster we will sending to poor countries.
Renewable energy sources
Renewable energy sources
They get recycled.

I can't believe some of you are still using the tired, often disproven "where is the energy coming from?" Argument.

So here, again, as the national grid article debunking that

 
I can't believe some of you are still using the tired, often disproven "where is the energy coming from?" Argument.

I know, and they say it whilst using fossil fuels, which have caused damage for centuries and also which we have a lack of within our country, so we end up enslaved to those who do have them. It's amazing how negative, and backward thinking that argument is.

Wind and Solar, are practically free and nobody is turning either of them off.

Within 10 years, nearly all of our electric could be covered by wind alone, so by the time we've managed to switch most cars over to EV's we should be more than ready, what ever we can't we'll supplement, until we can.

Then, by 2030, solar will be even cheaper, EV's will be more efficient (houses and electronic products will also be more efficient too), this is also seen in that our Electricity use is going down, it's down 25% in 15 years.

Also, more EV's are charged at home, and the majority of that can be done at night when demand is lower, it's not like people charging their cars is going to mean then have to turn their kettle off at 7pm!

1646063142823.png
Then
 
To be fair, the greenness of EVs is a valid question. Being marginally better than ICE isn't the be all and end all and it wouldn't be the first time companies tried to pull the wool over our eyes by claiming one thing when the reality was very different. E.g. claims that buying locally grown veg is better because there is no long journey but when you dig a bit you find that the total energy used is less to grow tomatoes in Spain and import them than to grow them under heatlamps round the corner. Or plastic carrier bags are bad for the environment so use a bag for life but a bag for life has to be used 20,000 times to be better for the total environmental cost because of the energy and water used to produce the cotton etc. There are always more questions to be asked, that isn't a bad thing.

If there is a better solution than EV and EV ends up being something that delays us getting there then it means it isn't the optimal choice to make now. However, you can only work with the information we have though and at the moment EVs are better than ICE for the environment, they don't pollute in cities and it reduces our reliance on fossil fuels which we know are bad so any move away from them is good. We're a long way from not using fossil fuels to generate electricity though, even though our usage is decreasing.

I am comfortable that my EV is better for the environment than its petrol/diesel equivalent but I am under no illusion that it is good for the environment. It would be better not having it at all but we are even further away from a reliable public transport system than we are nuclear fusion.
 
To be fair, the greenness of EVs is a valid question. Being marginally better than ICE isn't the be all and end all and it wouldn't be the first time companies tried to pull the wool over our eyes by claiming one thing when the reality was very different. E.g. claims that buying locally grown veg is better because there is no long journey but when you dig a bit you find that the total energy used is less to grow tomatoes in Spain and import them than to grow them under heatlamps round the corner. Or plastic carrier bags are bad for the environment so use a bag for life but a bag for life has to be used 20,000 times to be better for the total environmental cost because of the energy and water used to produce the cotton etc. There are always more questions to be asked, that isn't a bad thing.

If there is a better solution than EV and EV ends up being something that delays us getting there then it means it isn't the optimal choice to make now. However, you can only work with the information we have though and at the moment EVs are better than ICE for the environment, they don't pollute in cities and it reduces our reliance on fossil fuels which we know are bad so any move away from them is good. We're a long way from not using fossil fuels to generate electricity though, even though our usage is decreasing.

I am comfortable that my EV is better for the environment than its petrol/diesel equivalent but I am under no illusion that it is good for the environment. It would be better not having it at all but we are even further away from a reliable public transport system than we are nuclear fusion.
Yeah being green wasn't even 1% of my thought about getting one, as I knew we heavily relied on gas etc, and I don't have solar panels or a wind turbine. But the move to renewables is going to grow in rate, if anything, so that's changing, so EV's will get greener. What is certain is that fossil fuels have zero chance of being the way forward, and people trying to argue for them are just holding us back.

EV's are the only real chance of "getting green" too I think, even more so if Fusion comes about, and solar decreasing in cost every year, and people finally realising that we have to give up some areas to wind turbines out of necessity.

There's zero chance that hydrogen will be going in cars on mass, anytime in the next half a century as I just think we're not going to want to rely on hydrogen tankers driving around all over the place, when there's adequate grid cables to be used.

Might be possible to use hydrogen to power the grid mind, I'd say that's more likely.

One things for sure, there will be no hydrogen pipe network being installed in the UK, it's just not going to happen.
 
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