HiredGun123
Well-known member
Yes through speech, I meant as an alternative to booing, Meaning I don’t think it makes a difference which. Sorry for the misunderstanding, or a bad way of putting it on my part with lack of clarity.
Gareth Southgate's strong message after some supporters booed when England players take the knee [Gazette]
- Thread starter r00fie1
- Start date
Yes through speech, I meant as an alternative to booing, Meaning I don’t think it makes a difference which. Sorry for the misunderstanding, or a bad way of putting it on my part with lack of clarity.
HiredGun123
Well-known member
I’ve only been in their presence when they would talk and not boo. If we are talking literally booing , I don’t know I’ve never sat in the stadium with them, but they share the same sentiments as many that boo. Yes they boo it, Figuratively speaking.
What’s the difference? Both verbal gestures of opposition, so tell me what the difference is?
BoroMart
Well-known member
If these people that boo are definitely not racist and definitely support equality, and are definitely misunderstood and definitely not stupid, then don't you think they could find a more intellectual response to taking the knee that gets their point across while showing support for black footballers than just making a primal gutteral sound with little intellectual merit and gives (by your claim) an ambiguous message?
Maybe they could turn their back on the field and sing "F%(k the racists, up off your knees, F%(*k the racists up off your knees". OF course this makes the massive assumption that those people that are booing actually give a toss about racial equality.
Maybe they could turn their back on the field and sing "F%(k the racists, up off your knees, F%(*k the racists up off your knees". OF course this makes the massive assumption that those people that are booing actually give a toss about racial equality.
Ok. So when bear said...
and you said...
What you actually meant to say was "probably not no."
r00fie1
Well-known member
"...it has clear links to a very shady organisation" [?!!]
Nothing "shady" about this!
Pretty crystal clear:
BLACKLIVESMATTER.UK
blacklivesmatter.uk
WELCOME - We stand together across the globe to change the world, we kneel together in peace and solidarity asserting Black people are treated as equals to White people. It is a human right to receive racial equality, social and criminal justice in the societies we live and to receive parity as full citizens of the country and as a united nation.
We are a non-political, non-partisan, non-violence platform. Some content published on our website may have limited political content by the very nature of a country state governed and under a system of democracy. We operate in a humanitarian capacity and concern before all else.
We are not operating in a political capacity, are not a member of nor are we connected with any political party or political campaign.
Disclaimer: We are NEITHER associated or affiliated with @ukblm registered (Sep 2020) with FCA under the name 'Black Liberation Movement UK' nor are will affiliated to BLM USA and or any other political party or group here in the UK or abroad.
We are a non-political, non-partisan, non-violence platform. Some content published on our website may have limited political content by the very nature of a country state governed and under a system of democracy. We operate in a humanitarian capacity and concern before all else.
We are not operating in a political capacity, are not a member of nor are we connected with any political party or political campaign.
Disclaimer: We are NEITHER associated or affiliated with @ukblm registered (Sep 2020) with FCA under the name 'Black Liberation Movement UK' nor are will affiliated to BLM USA and or any other political party or group here in the UK or abroad.
Dont forget the website:
BLACKLIVESMATTER.UK
blacklivesmatter.uk
BLACKLIVESMATTER.UK
blacklivesmatter.uk
UTMB!
HiredGun123
Well-known member
So booing is off the table but you are okay with people expressing they oppose the knee in regular speech? What’s the parameters here?
If someone were to write on Twitter “I disagree with the players being on one knee” is that ok? Is there a big difference between that and booing? It’s still showing lack of support and showing opposition to something.
So then what about when many black publicly oppose it, Whether that’s through speech, writing or booing, are they racist too?
Or just those people that make a boo noise?
Adi_Dem
Well-known member
Deep down you must know the answers to these questions. You must. Nobody is that ignorant surely. I will Janet and John it for you:
Booing is an idiotic gesture born of ignorance and/or racism. Expressing intelligent reasoning around the flaws someone perceives in the gesture and trying to identify better means whilst still supporting the overall message is the opposite. It really isn't difficult stuff. It's being made difficult by people who either want to boo it or want to defend the people booing it. There are inferences that I draw from that.
TheYorkshireTerrier
Well-known member
Speaking very well regarding it as is Max Rushden, although he just said fans should applaud as soon as they take the knee instead of waiting for the booing. The one thing that stood out to me was that I completely forgot that they would be doing that and only realised when I heard the booing.
BoroMart
Well-known member
Speech is important discussion is important, as long as it's approached honestly. That isn't to say all opinions have equal merit and all opinions are acceptable. That's not just in terms of racism by the way, their are boundaries to taste and decency regardless. We all have those red lines. Now the reality is, if you value your own desire to not see players take the knee as more important than the fight for racial equality, your a bit of a d*ck at a minimum. If you have a misunderstanding of the facts influenced by deceiving and disincentivising social media campaigns then you are somewhere between gullible and stupid, and if you just oppose change then your a bigot, and if you don't want people that are different from you to have a fair crack at life then your a racist. Give or take a bit of nuance that sums this up (again).
I would engage with them and ask why it offends them.
I would engage to understand why. The point with booing is that you cannot engage with a primal sounds, it's the opposite of engaged debate. It's debating for toddlers. The fact some black people don't agree with it is neither here nor there, there has never been a movement for change in history with 100% support. It's an irrelevance that some people don't support it.
ForssAwakens
Well-known member
Hiredrifle 
jonny_greenings_sock
Well-known member
One of the things I love most about sport is that it’s a true meritocracy.
Doesn’t matter who you are, if you’re good enough you get to the top.
Football in particular is probably one of the biggest vehicles for change we have in the world, for broadening people’s minds to different cultures and different people, looking past the stereotype to the person underneath.
Jurgen Klinsmann came over here when everyone was still a bit hesitant towards Germans, and turned out to be a right laugh, doing a comedy dive after his debut goal. A strict Muslim 2nd generation African immigrant like N’Golo Kante is not only accepted by French fans, he’s beloved by every football fan worldwide because he’s a F***ing lovely bloke and an incredible footballer.
Football is one of the best advertisements for multicultural harmony we have. And if nothing else, we’re having this conversation.
Doesn’t matter who you are, if you’re good enough you get to the top.
Football in particular is probably one of the biggest vehicles for change we have in the world, for broadening people’s minds to different cultures and different people, looking past the stereotype to the person underneath.
Jurgen Klinsmann came over here when everyone was still a bit hesitant towards Germans, and turned out to be a right laugh, doing a comedy dive after his debut goal. A strict Muslim 2nd generation African immigrant like N’Golo Kante is not only accepted by French fans, he’s beloved by every football fan worldwide because he’s a F***ing lovely bloke and an incredible footballer.
Football is one of the best advertisements for multicultural harmony we have. And if nothing else, we’re having this conversation.
HiredGun123
Well-known member
"...it has clear links to a very shady organisation" [?!!]
Nothing "shady" about this!
Pretty crystal clear:
BLACKLIVESMATTER.UK
WELCOME - We stand together across the globe to change the world, we kneel together in peace and solidarity asserting Black people are treated as equals to White people. It is a human right to receive racial equality, social and criminal justice in the societies we live and to receive parity as full citizens of the country and as a united nation.
We are a non-political, non-partisan, non-violence platform. Some content published on our website may have limited political content by the very nature of a country state governed and under a system of democracy. We operate in a humanitarian capacity and concern before all else.
We are not operating in a political capacity, are not a member of nor are we connected with any political party or political campaign.
Disclaimer: We are NEITHER associated or affiliated with @ukblm registered (Sep 2020) with FCA under the name 'Black Liberation Movement UK' nor are will affiliated to BLM USA and or any other political party or group here in the UK or abroad.
Dont forget the website:
View attachment 19458View attachment 19459View attachment 19460View attachment 19461BLACKLIVESMATTER.UK
BLACKLIVESMATTER.UK
I guess you didn’t read the original manifesto that got taken down a few months ago about wanting to destroy the idea of the nuclear family and everything like that. They had to change it after the backlash.
If I were you, I would do a lot more research into that organisation, it’s foundations, Who is really behind it. If you truly do that and don’t come away with serious questions, then your heart may be in the right place but your mind is way off track and that helps nobody.
it’s okay if you want to be selective in what you post but dig deeper.
Laughing
Well-known member
This thread demonstrates why racism is still a problem in society. If the only tool you have to fight racism is calling racists out then it's a blunt, useless instrument. Maybe sensible conversation and trying to understand why people hold racist views might help more.
What has largely happened on this thread is someone tried to explain why people might boo players kneeling and bit by bit they get shouted down.
People are more interested in condeming racism than trying to improve the situation.
That approach hasn't worked and will never work. Time to rethink the approach I would suggest.
What has largely happened on this thread is someone tried to explain why people might boo players kneeling and bit by bit they get shouted down.
People are more interested in condeming racism than trying to improve the situation.
That approach hasn't worked and will never work. Time to rethink the approach I would suggest.
bear66
Well-known member
There are many families that aren't nuclear families. Have you got something against those people? Do you boo them when you see them?
BoroMart
Well-known member
You are paraphrasing, and I'm guessing based on paraphrasing from right wing journalists. That's dishonest. Give the original quote, so we can all see it and judge. However it IS a moot point because it is not their current vision.
The problem is they were grass roots, they didn't have any money to hire people to build a brand, they learned as they went along. Guess what, they probably were a bit ambiguous and a bit all over the place with their message to start with. The alternative is they got big PR corporations involved to do it.....but then the argument would be, but they're being bankrolled by George Soros or some other deflection.
Their message is clear, you can see it, organisations go through learning curves, you haven't I presume got any objections to their current message....so what's the problem. You've been told not to trust them? Well you know what, I'd be more worried about the people that are telling you not to trust them, because they've had your pants down.
BoroMart
Well-known member
They haven't been shouted down, a discussion has been had, their views seem to be based on spurious, old and incorrect information.
LaPennaBianca
Well-known member
Who is really behind it then?
BoroMart
Well-known member
CAn I pre-empt the usual boogeyman answer, it's not true https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-false-george-soros-claims-idUSKBN23P2XJ