Freeports

Nero said:
It's not a Freeport it's a Charter City. If these Libertarian Tories get their way the whole of Teesside will be turned over to corporations that will run outside of any jurisdiction. Think New Detroit ran by Omni Corp in RoboCop.
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There is nothing in the freeports legislation currently that allows charter cities. The tories may move that way but there isn't any evidence of that at the moment.
 
Laughing said:
There is nothing in the freeports legislation currently that allows charter cities. The tories may move that way but there isn't any evidence of that at the moment.
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It is legislation they are removing that contains the threat, they are laying a foundation and removing legislation that would prevent charter cities. They will never out and out say that is the direction but if we are all honest with ourselves it would not shock if that is exactly what they are doing.
 
Redwurzel said:
If the system is completely abused its stopped.
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And herein lies the problem I would say. A system which allows large corporations to avoid things like tax and investing in workers health and safety would always prosper, if those same organisations donated to certain political parties.

Less tax coming in to the economy, less rights for workers. I can't see why people would think this was a good idea. Unless you owned a large organisation that invested in them.
 
SmallTown said:
I have answered, in that I have asked for clarification. What exactly are freeports the solution to?
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I might be wrong because I'm not 100% on the situation but I thought the point of a freeport is it allows a business to simplify (which I presume means reduce) the way it pays tax.

E.g. If Business X needs 10 components to build item Y but only 5 of them are available here then it has to import the other 5. Current rules means that they'd have to pay import tax on those 5 items and then the customer pays VAT on the completed product, so double tax. A freeport means that X can import the components tax free then import tax will only need to be paid by the customer on the completed product.

The other benefit is that it attracts businesses to areas of low economic activity which means jobs in areas that have no jobs.

Undoubtedly there will be more benefits for businesses then there will be for people and there are arguments that existing businesses will just move to freeports because they will reduce tax so there will be no new jobs, just relocated jobs and less overall tax taken.

My guess is that freeports could be good but the people in charge will not choose the good way to do things because they would rather do the thing that lines rich people pockets and will give them some cushy non-exec role in the future.
 
To Everyone

As I stated in earlier posts on this thread we have a seriuous problem in this country in that some areas of the country have too much economic activity and some have too little.

First do we all agree?

Its pointless me spending any more time typing if we don't agree.
 
Redwurzel said:
To Everyone

As I stated in earlier posts on this thread we have a seriuous problem in this country in that some areas of the country have too much economic activity and some have too little.

First do we all agree?

Its pointless me spending any more time typing if we don't agree.
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I agree but isn’t that basically the same for every country in the world?
 
RoaryTheLion said:
I agree but isn’t that basically the same for every country in the world?
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Not like it is in the UK. Most other major economies have several big cities. We really only have London, nothing else comes close. Germany for example have no city as big as London but Birmingham is our 2nd city and they have Rhine-Rur, Berlin, Munich, Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Hamburg & Nuremburg which are all bigger than Birmingham economically. Obviously, having major cities that spread out means the more rural places around them are closer to a major city and so perform economically better as well.

We have a major problem with the UK being so London-centric.
 
Nano said:
Not like it is in the UK. Most other major economies have several big cities. We really only have London, nothing else comes close. Germany for example have no city as big as London but Birmingham is our 2nd city and they have Rhine-Rur, Berlin, Munich, Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Hamburg & Nuremburg which are all bigger than Birmingham economically. Obviously, having major cities that spread out means the more rural places around them are closer to a major city and so perform economically better as well.

We have a major problem with the UK being so London-centric.
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That makes sense. I’m not clued up on economics so I appreciate the perspective. Could Germany not be considered an outlier due to the controls enforced during the division of Germany post Potsdam? Seems prudent for the overseeing states not to allow over concentration of wealth in one particular city and you’d imagine it would take longer than 30-35 years for that to be undone.
 
JonnyHistory said:
It is legislation they are removing that contains the threat, they are laying a foundation and removing legislation that would prevent charter cities. They will never out and out say that is the direction but if we are all honest with ourselves it would not shock if that is exactly what they are doing.
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Oh it's a possibility. I am not sure they are insane enough to do that though.
 
RoaryTheLion said:
That makes sense. I’m not clued up on economics so I appreciate the perspective. Could Germany not be considered an outlier due to the controls enforced during the division of Germany post Potsdam? Seems prudent for the overseeing states not to allow over concentration of wealth in one particular city and you’d imagine it would take longer than 30-35 years for that to be undone.
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I don't know to be honest. My best guess would be that Germany are still a major manufacturing country so have manufacturing spread around the country. Also, having multiple capital cities probably means less focus on one single one. They also seem to have each area be a specialist for different things like Frankfurt being the finance centre, Bavaria for cars etc.
 
Laughing said:
Oh it's a possibility. I am not sure they are insane enough to do that though.
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The Tory party is neo-liberal with its economic policy and that economic mindset is not just restricted to the far-right and libertarian factions; this is their wet-dream for a significant number of them!

None of them are stupid enough to outright say it, but as with everything this party do, its not what they say you need to observe, it is what they are not saying where the real danger lies.

I would hope there are enough sane voices left in that party to prevent this but I would not be surprised if it happens. Will be packaged as an 'economic growth area" or some other rhetorical claptrap slogan if it happens.
 
Nano said:
I might be wrong because I'm not 100% on the situation but I thought the point of a freeport is it allows a business to simplify (which I presume means reduce) the way it pays tax.

E.g. If Business X needs 10 components to build item Y but only 5 of them are available here then it has to import the other 5. Current rules means that they'd have to pay import tax on those 5 items and then the customer pays VAT on the completed product, so double tax. A freeport means that X can import the components tax free then import tax will only need to be paid by the customer on the completed product.

The other benefit is that it attracts businesses to areas of low economic activity which means jobs in areas that have no jobs.

Undoubtedly there will be more benefits for businesses then there will be for people and there are arguments that existing businesses will just move to freeports because they will reduce tax so there will be no new jobs, just relocated jobs and less overall tax taken.

My guess is that freeports could be good but the people in charge will not choose the good way to do things because they would rather do the thing that lines rich people pockets and will give them some cushy non-exec role in the future.
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The issue being that it attracts business because they get tax breaks. So the country as a whole suffers. Wouldn’t you agree? No point in increasing an economy if the only entity to benefit is a large business.

Oh and those new workers? They still pay taxes. They will have reduced workers rights in a freeport and of course they will suffer from the fact the economy as a whole is pulling in fewer taxes. I honestly can’t see a benefit for the working man. Who is losing rights and having his public services damaged by such a model
 
RoaryTheLion said:
Nice tone. Perhaps we can look at how other countries tackle income inequality (or not) and the impacts of freeports on this.
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'Nice tone', didn't upset diddums somehow did I?

If you think they're a good idea give examples of where they've balanced out wealth inequality in a country?
 
Redwurzel said:
To Everyone

As I stated in earlier posts on this thread we have a seriuous problem in this country in that some areas of the country have too much economic activity and some have too little.

First do we all agree?

Its pointless me spending any more time typing if we don't agree.
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A deeply unhealthy premise for discussion.
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
'Nice tone', didn't upset diddums somehow did I?

If you think they're a good idea give examples of where they've balanced out wealth inequality in a country?
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What are you talking about? I don’t think freeports are a good idea at all. I was suggesting there will be available data that gives evidence as to whether freeports reduce wealth inequality or not.
Try not to let your emotions run roughshod over your actions. It’s ugly.
 
Any comparison with Germany and German cities cannot be made fairly. Germany is a federal state so made up of several semi-independent areas. It therefore makes sense that they have several large economic cities. The closest thing Britain and specifically England has is regional Mayor's but even then their options are limited.

As for Freeport's. The current legislation actually states that power that resides with a Local Authority can effectively be given to the Freeport if the Secretary of State sees fit to do so. Make of that what you will.
 
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