Fraudiola

[Marvanelli]

Pep improved Barca, but the foundations were very much left by Rijkaard, they were CL winners

Rijkaard won nothing in 2007/08 and in fact they finished 3rd in La Liga - which is often regarded as a 2 horse race, 18 points behind winners Real Madrid and 10 points behind 2nd place Villareal.

Pep then got the job and the first thing he did was send 2 of their biggest players, Ronaldinho & Deco, packing.

It was hardly a case of continuing where Rijkaard left them. Pep changed the way they played, and turned them into a winning machine, whilst playing the greatest football we have ever seen.

 

[atypical_boro]

Rijkaard won nothing in 2007/08 and in fact they finished 3rd in La Liga - which is often regarded as a 2 horse race, 18 points behind winners Real Madrid and 10 points behind 2nd place Villareal.

Pep then got the job and the first thing he did was send 2 of their biggest players, Ronaldinho & Deco, packing.

It was hardly a case of continuing where Rijkaard left them. Pep changed the way they played, and turned them into a winning machine, whilst playing the greatest football we have ever seen.

He did, but he was also taking over a side that were very, very recently Champions of Europe.

 

[Norman_Conquest]

Have you watched it? Its a great film, I only watched it about a month ago. Kudos to you for finding this article in an attempt to prove me wrong.

Clearly Liverpool spent money, and not just money they generated by being good, but put simply, the main difference is that it wasn't part of a sportswashing operation and they weren't breaking any rules (of the day).

I suppose it depends how much disdain you subjectively attach to this. For me, its a lot. Ultimately, City's achievements MAY have been down to cheating.

It is not about proving you wrong, it is about highlighting that every team needs a sugar daddy to start things rolling and Liverpool had theirs. If you've seen the documentary about Liverpool splashing the cash, not sure why you stated all monies came from winning domestic and international trophies. Some of the sums of money they spent on players is staggering.

I think we have both have already agreed on this thread and others that the money wasn't generated through sports washing, and yes Liverpool wasn't breaking any rules at the time, but, there was always questions of how other teams could compete with the money Liverpool splashed on players and if it was a level playing field.

 

[Marvanelli]

He did, but he was also taking over a side that were very, very recently Champions of Europe.

But we both know, 1 season can change a lot.

Just recently Chelsea won the CL under Tuchel 2020/21 and the next year (Sept 2022) Potter took charge and did nothing.....but yet he took over a team that recently won the CL?

Pep took over a team that won absolutely nothing that previous season and turned them into treble winners. That isn't easy.

Has a manager ever done that? Took over a team that won zero the previous season and won the Treble in the very next season?

 

[atypical_boro]

If you've seen the documentary about Liverpool splashing the cash, not sure why you stated all monies came from winning domestic and international trophies.

I don't think I said that explicitly, but this film isn't 'about' that, its just referred to at the beginning and in no way a prominent theme right through the movie. I suppose they didn't get rich purely from being good, they started spending but Shankly DID bring about fairly quick success which helped them get richer but they were starting from way further back than Pep at City.

Sugar daddies do help, and most 'successful' clubs have one, it just isn't quite the same in the Liverpool example as the City one as you say. And yes, we have rules about it now.

I've no doubt that in the 70s/80s I'd have enjoyed seeing Liverpool fail to be honest, if I was born and at a similar age to the one I am now. I grew up in the 80s and even though I never had any affiliation to Liverpool, I still think of that side they had as a team full of cartoon-like superstars, much like my son thinks of Man City. I'd probably be in awe of Ronnie Whelan if I bumped into him in a pub. I once (literally) bumped in to John Barnes and I was star-struck. If KDB walked into my local pub I'd probably drink up and leave, I'm so bored of the vvankfest about him (and yes I know he is an exceptionally good player). I'm actually sick of seeing his Prince Harry face!

My dislike of Chelsea, as another example, started way before Roman took over anyway. That isn't just based on their sugar daddy/sports-washing ownership, but its part of it.

 

[atypical_boro]

But we both know, 1 season can change a lot.

Just recently Chelsea won the CL under Tuchel 2020/21 and the next year (Sept 2022) Potter took charge and did nothing.....but yet he took over a team that recently won the CL?

Pep took over a team that won absolutely nothing that previous season and turned them into treble winners. That isn't easy.

Has a manager ever done that? Took over a team that won zero the previous season and won the Treble in the very next season?

Ok, I'm not saying he is rubbish or anything. But he doesn't have a Porto/Aberdeen/Nottingham Forest on his CV. This will be something that is levelled at him, rightly or wrongly, and valued by different people to differing extents. All I'm doing is pointing it out, whether or not it is significant is open to interpretation and debate. Some people will always say Clough is a better manager because of what he did with small clubs etc.

I have said in my very first comment that he is one of the best managers of all-time, despite pointing this out, and despite my claim that the Barca team he inherited was also a top team.

 

[viv_andersons_nana]

Guardiola certainly didn’t have everything handed to him at Barcelona. He earned the right to manage the first team by winning Segunda B with Barcelona B. He took over a team that had finished 18 points behind Real Madrid and won the treble in his first season. As for ‘inheriting the best player in the world/of all time’ in Messi, well Messi wasn’t even the best player at Barcelona when Guardiola was appointed.

He’s had advantages in terms of money and access to the best players but he’s earned those advantages. You don’t get appointed by these clubs and stay there for almost two decades if you’re not incredibly skilled at your job.

His legacy is assured. Roaming full backs, false 9s, playing out from the 6 yard box, sweeper ‘keepers, tiki-taka… you can’t take any of it away from him. He’s taken revolutionary ideas from the 50s, 60s and 70s and brought them into the contemporary game with his own twist. He has changed the way we play football in England. I’ve seen Dorking Wanderers in tier 6 and Dulwich Hamlet in tier 7 building out from their own goal-line. Guardiola’s imprint is everywhere.

The financial issues at City are a separate thing imo. Much like Eddie Howe at Newcastle. Howe has access to insane money but the quality of coaching, the way he motivates his players, etc, is there for all to see. Pep Guardiola is a borderline freak tbh. Could he do it with Darlo or Lincoln? Could he coach footballers of lesser skill and talent to play the way he wants and make them better both individually and collectively? He absolutely could. Could he win the Champions League with a club the size of Darlo or Lincoln? Of course not. It doesn’t change the fact he’s the greatest coach and innovator of the modern era imo.

 

[Lefty]

Thiery Henry rates him

Talks about Wenger and Pep about 38 mins in.

 

[viv_andersons_nana]

Also, the Boro only play the way we play because he did it with Manchester City and it worked. Pundits, ex-players, journalists, they said his football couldn’t work in England and ridiculed it during his first season. Now they talk about him as if he’s their best mate, Pep this and Pep that, he’s a genius etc. This thing with ‘keepers bring good with their feet, he was doing it with Valdes 15 years ago. Without that, Boro don’t have Dieng doing what he does. It’s amazing that people still question him or try to play down his achievements in some way. I don’t understand it.

 

[Nero]

Guardiola will go down as the best. Simple as that.

I still expect Abu Dhabi City to win the league this season.

 

[atypical_boro]

Also, the Boro only play the way we play because he did it with Manchester City and it worked. Pundits, ex-players, journalists, they said his football couldn’t work in England and ridiculed it during his first season. Now they talk about him as if he’s their best mate, Pep this and Pep that, he’s a genius etc. This thing with ‘keepers bring good with their feet, he was doing it with Valdes 15 years ago. Without that, Boro don’t have Dieng doing what he does. It’s amazing that people still question him or try to play down his achievements in some way. I don’t understand it.

I don’t think anyone is on this thread, for clarity. I have said he is one of the best managers of all time. In fact it was the first thing I said. Doesn’t mean I “enjoy” watching them dominate English football though, they bore me.