Face masks

Laughing said:
I may be wrong here, but a couple of weeks ago when I was looking into the benefits of wearing a face mask, the evidence was all over the place and contradictory.

Some evidence suggests they may actually increase the spread of any infectious disease.

I asked this question on another face mask thread. How are masked to be disposed and who is responsible for their collection and disposal?

With no infrastructure in place we will just be loading waste bins with covid petri dishes
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You are 100% correct.
The difference between a surgeon, a dentist etc and us is... They know how to handle wearing a mask and they have safe places to dispose of them.
Normal people fiddle with a mask almost constantly, they touch the damp goop etc and then touch objects and their faces with it.
They then chuck it in the bin or the floor or leave it in glove box till next time (stewing).
They give many people terrible skin complaints and are for many incredibly uncomfortable.
There's no evidence to support wearing one.

People are happy to point to death rates in the far East whilst completely ignoring the difference between cultures. Take for example Japan with its incredibly low obesity levels and fish based diet high in vitamin D... Is it the masks or the lifestyles that make the difference?
 
My mask protects you, your mask protects me.

It is that simple.

It doesn't matter if people fiddle with their masks the whole point is that transmission is reduced because those carrying the virus are less likely to infect someone else if they are wearing a mask. Anyone need that explaining again?
 
Muttley said:
My mask protects you, your mask protects me.

It is that simple.

It doesn't matter if people fiddle with their masks the whole point is that transmission is reduced because those carrying the virus are less likely to infect someone else if they are wearing a mask. Anyone need that explaining again?
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Give up. I've tried multiple times to some it's just not sinking in. Maybe those people are inherently selfish and don't care if the pass on the disease? They just want to avoid it themselves
 
SmallTown said:
You could also see how many people died win China, compared to here?

Second point sounds depressingly accurate though. People are just inherently selfish. If only the government would a: make masks mandatory and b: ensure the sturcture for fining people who don't comply is strong (i.e £50 fine for first offence, rising to £1000 for repeat offenders say.)
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Again if you believe the numbers that came out of China then you are naive but that's another conversation.
 
SmallTown said:
Give up. I've tried multiple times to some it's just not sinking in. Maybe those people are inherently selfish and don't care if the pass on the disease? They just want to avoid it themselves
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Or those people can have a legitimate medical reason for not wearing one but don't let me stop you judging everybody by of they wear a hanky on their faces or not.
I'm sure a regime in the past used to use a yellow star to similar effect that you are using.
 
The more people that wear them the better, problem with making it mandatory is that unless the government provide the masks free of charge there will always be people that say they can't or genuinely can't afford face masks.

Any covering is better than nothing, it really is just to catch any 'fluid' rather than airborne viral particles so it doesn't need to be medical grade.
 
RandySavage said:
Or those people can have a legitimate medical reason for not wearing one but don't let me stop you judging everybody by of they wear a hanky on their faces or not.
I'm sure a regime in the past used to use a yellow star to similar effect that you are using.
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That's a massive false equivalence. If someone has a medical reasons for wearing one fine. I just hear people bleating about having to wear one. Seems like their own sense of style, or whatever it is, is more important to them than not infecting others. Shows how selfish some people are
 
Muttley said:
Well firstly there seems to be an awful lot of them and secondly perhaps you could outline a "legitimate medical reason" for not wearing one?
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I can't because I'm not a doctor. 😏
I do know for example those who suffer from breathing difficulties might not prefer to wear one. I don't know.
 
RandySavage said:
I can't because I'm not a doctor. 😏
I do know for example those who suffer from breathing difficulties might not prefer to wear one. I don't know.
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Maybe you should ask the people on here who say they aren't going to wear one? None of them have stated medical reasons they all seem to either be being obstinate or ignoring the entire common sense of having to wear one.
 
RandySavage said:
You could use the same argument for China where mask use was prominent before this pandemic but the virus still went about its business.

People will wear them and people won't. The same reason as people still have a beer and drive, people still use their phones whilst driving, people still talk on the phone on quiet carriages on the train, people still smoke in hotel rooms. Yes not everybody but still minority.

It will probably be made mandatory this week but don't expect everybody you see to be wearing one.
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China had incredibly low infection rates. One of the lowest in the world. Numbers may be questionable as are worldwide figures. 192nd out of 213 countries / territories.
 
One thing I have noticed from many discussions on here is that there does seem to be a lot of mis-perception about people, who they are, what they do and quite importantly, how their age impacts their behaviour.

I'm 55, I have worked throughout the pandemic, I have worn a mask at work for 8 hours a day and I wear a mask in public if there is any danger I'll encounter others. I don't fall into the oft-touted group of old people who are scared to go out and want lockdown to continue until a vaccine is available. I don't fall into the group of so-called furlough lovers either.
I've adopted mask mearing because I don't want to catch the virus for my own safety, but also because I have been caring for two shielding people throughout the pandemic. I may be the victim of false scientific narratives, but from my experience at work, masks and good hygiene stop the spread.
I'll listen to all the anti-mask arguments with the thought that the poster making them is probably in a much different situation than me and as such will justify their viewpoint.
However, from a general public health approach, I honestly think that the majority of people would get more benefit from wearing a mask or face-covering in places where they'll be in close quarters with others. If I am anywhere with non-mask wearer's then I'll be very alert of that fact and I'll do my social distancing diligently even in the face of other people acting like this pandemic is over and done with.
 
SmallTown said:
Maybe you should ask the people on here who say they aren't going to wear one? None of them have stated medical reasons they all seem to either be being obstinate or ignoring the entire common sense of having to wear one.
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How's this for you:-

While most agree that the N95 mask can cause significant hypoxia and hypercapnia, another study of surgical masks found significant reductions in blood oxygen as well. In this study, researchers examined the blood oxygen levels in 53 surgeons using an oximeter. They measured blood oxygenation before surgery as well as at the end of surgeries.4 The researchers found that the mask reduced the blood oxygen levels (pa02) significantly. The longer the duration of wearing the mask, the greater the fall in blood oxygen levels.
The importance of these findings is that a drop in oxygen levels (hypoxia) is associated with an impairment in immunity. Studies have shown that hypoxia can inhibit the type of main immune cells used to fight viral infections called the CD4+ T-lymphocyte. This occurs because the hypoxia increases the level of a compound called hypoxia inducible factor-1 (HIF-1), which inhibits T-lymphocytes and stimulates a powerful immune inhibitor cell called the Tregs. . This sets the stage for contracting any infection, including COVID-19 and making the consequences of that infection much graver. In essence, your mask may very well put you at an increased risk of infections and if so, having a much worse outcome.5,6,7
People with cancer, especially if the cancer has spread, will be at a further risk from prolonged hypoxia as the cancer grows best in a microenvironment that is low in oxygen. Low oxygen also promotes inflammation which can promote the growth, invasion and spread of cancers.8,9 Repeated episodes of hypoxia has been proposed as a significant factor in atherosclerosis and hence increases all cardiovascular (heart attacks) and cerebrovascular (strokes) diseases.10
There is another danger to wearing these masks on a daily basis, especially if worn for several hours. When a person is infected with a respiratory virus, they will expel some of the virus with each breath. If they are wearing a mask, especially an N95 mask or other tightly fitting mask, they will be constantly rebreathing the viruses, raising the concentration of the virus in the lungs and the nasal passages. We know that people who have the worst reactions to the coronavirus have the highest concentrations of the virus early on. And this leads to the deadly cytokine storm in a selected number.
It gets even more frightening. Newer evidence suggests that in some cases the virus can enter the brain.11,12 In most instances it enters the brain by way of the olfactory nerves (smell nerves), which connect directly with the area of the brain dealing with recent memory and memory consolidation. By wearing a mask, the exhaled viruses will not be able to escape and will concentrate in the nasal passages, enter the olfactory nerves and travel into the brain.13
 
Alvez_48 said:
It gets even more frightening.
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Only if you want it to..

N95 masks are not really what we are talking about and without full PPE probably a waste of money. We are not talking about wearing a mask for an extended period (unless you are planning on a long haul flight). Cancer patients should almost certainly not be going out in public if they are currently having treatment with a mask or without.

Alvez_48 said:
When a person is infected with a respiratory virus, they will expel some of the virus with each breath. If they are wearing a mask, especially an N95
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Again not the sort of mask that we are talking about and also the point of the mask is not the safety of the person who has COVID but the people who don't.

Alvez_48 said:
How's this for you:-
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It proves I'm right.
 
Mutley there is absoloutely no proof that wearing a face mask limits the spread of the disease. There are some studies that suggest it does and some that suggest it doesn't and even a few that say they are counter productive. So no there is no proof.
 
Muttley has you banged to rights there @Alvez_48 maybe you should have read the whole thread and realised we specifically WEREN't talking about N95 masks before your extended internet search and copy and pasting.
 
Muttley said:
Only if you want it to..

N95 masks are not really what we are talking about and without full PPE probably a waste of money. We are not talking about wearing a mask for an extended period (unless you are planning on a long haul flight). Cancer patients should almost certainly not be going out in public if they are currently having treatment with a mask or without.


Again not the sort of mask that we are talking about and also the point of the mask is not the safety of the person who has COVID but the people who don't.


It proves I'm right.
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Oh none of that was my words it was a quote
 
Laughing said:
Mutley there is absoloutely no proof that wearing a face mask limits the spread of the disease. There are some studies that suggest it does and some that suggest it doesn't and even a few that say they are counter productive. So no there is no proof.
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There is good solid proof that it limits the spread.

Of course, you can "google" and find proof that it doesn't. Knock yourself out.
 
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