BoroFur
Well-known member
You're just splitting hairs Brian which is, quite frankly, pathetic of you.
f1 monza
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Randy
Well-known member
That's not driving that's a crash.
Randy
Well-known member
How do we know things weren't discussed by the two of them during the meeting with the stewards? Just because it wasn't shown on live TV doesn't mean it never happened.
I've seen drivers meetings before races a few times where all the drivers have a good rapport with each other.
JM14
Well-known member
Either way the point was the car landed on his head no matter how you phrase it and he could have been seriously injured, despite that Max just walked past him without even looking to see if he was ok. Its not the way an F1 driver should behave
BoroMart
Well-known member
OK, so Max crashed into Hamiltons head and didn't even check to see if he was ok.....it's still the abhorent behaviour of a sociopath
BoroMart
Well-known member
nothing to do with the stewards, in the moment he just got up and walked away, he could have walked over to hamilton and asked if he was ok, that's the point
BoroMart
Well-known member
or a human to be honest.
SmallTown
Well-known member
It's one of those replies where I am always wondering if Randy genuinely doesn't understand the conversation or he's deliberately twisting things to try and prove a point? Randy, in case you haven't seen the modern F1 driver is a conscious and thoughtful breed, at least in public. Every one of them knows the dangers of the sport and cares about their fellow drivers.
After every big crash drivers check welfare these days. The simple fact is Max's car rolled over the top of Lewis head. That's an undisptubale fact. Max should have checked the welfare of his fellow competitor after that. If you think he shouldn't then fine. If you think sociopathic and unfeeling behaviour is ok then that's fine. it's your prerogative. My point was THAT type of behaviour is why Max gets pelters. Nothing at all to do with has nationality, which, lets face it, isn 't exactly a nationality that gets vilified in Britain. I don't care what colour you skin and what colour your passport, if you are involved in an incident in which your tonne of vehicle lands on someone else's head, it would take a complete heart of stone not to check on their welfare. Whether you're asking "are you ok?" in Dutch, English, or Farsi is irrelevant. It's the fact you ask it that makes the man.
Subbuteo_171
Well-known member
Hamilton
280 Grand Prix
27 retirements of which
8 collisions
2 pile ups
2 accidents
Vercrashen
133 Grand Prix
29 retirements of which
8 collisions
5 accidents
And people are defending the dangerous Dutchman? He cannot control his anger and has zero patience, and therefore is more likely to cause incidents as backed up by the stats. His “aggression” is a cause of his behaviour, and Horner supports how we acts by defending him at all costs - he’s like a parent of a misbehaving child who refuses to accept they‘ve done anything wrong and Vercrashen will continue to act in this way until action is taken.
280 Grand Prix
27 retirements of which
8 collisions
2 pile ups
2 accidents
Vercrashen
133 Grand Prix
29 retirements of which
8 collisions
5 accidents
And people are defending the dangerous Dutchman? He cannot control his anger and has zero patience, and therefore is more likely to cause incidents as backed up by the stats. His “aggression” is a cause of his behaviour, and Horner supports how we acts by defending him at all costs - he’s like a parent of a misbehaving child who refuses to accept they‘ve done anything wrong and Vercrashen will continue to act in this way until action is taken.
Caesium137
Well-known member
Caesium137
Well-known member
Not a recent thing, Vettel says the same and plenty of other drivers have in the past other than Hamilton. I kind of don't have an issue with it, if you just get on with the racing and accept the consequences. I can't abide the whining and character assassination of Hamilton. It comes from Max himself, his dad, Helmut Bellend & the chief instigator Whinger Spice with his constant defence of anything Max does and having a go at any teams who have the temerity to try and put a car where Max thinks his should be.
Senna, Mansel, Hakkinen, Alesi, Schumacher (obviously) and plenty of others have driven in an aggressive style on plenty of occasions and claimed the race track position or whatever. They just didn't whine like a bitch when it happened to them or have a smug midget* gushing over their every indescretion as though they were somehow sainted to do whatever they liked.
* an argument could be made for Jean Todt and Schumacher I suppose
I think the thing that gets to me is the faux outrage and fakery/spin of all that RedBull seem to do.
Moaning that the sport is uncompetitive so they are leaving after they dominated for four years, the woe for Alex Albon not getting a seat when they are the only team with four available. The fake Dutchery and doing everything to engage with the 'orange army'. Helmut Marko constantly being a nasty, bullying, opinionated old ring piece who seems to just spout off whatever he likes to the German and Austrian press and nobody challenges him on it. The disrespectful comments about Renault and their engines after them powering them to drivers titles. They always come across as the rich spoiled kid at school who keeps threatening to take his ball home if he's not winning, or the bell whiff dad reffing a kids footie game who wants all the decisions for his team.
I'm sick of them.
Senna, Mansel, Hakkinen, Alesi, Schumacher (obviously) and plenty of others have driven in an aggressive style on plenty of occasions and claimed the race track position or whatever. They just didn't whine like a bitch when it happened to them or have a smug midget* gushing over their every indescretion as though they were somehow sainted to do whatever they liked.
* an argument could be made for Jean Todt and Schumacher I suppose
I think the thing that gets to me is the faux outrage and fakery/spin of all that RedBull seem to do.
Moaning that the sport is uncompetitive so they are leaving after they dominated for four years, the woe for Alex Albon not getting a seat when they are the only team with four available. The fake Dutchery and doing everything to engage with the 'orange army'. Helmut Marko constantly being a nasty, bullying, opinionated old ring piece who seems to just spout off whatever he likes to the German and Austrian press and nobody challenges him on it. The disrespectful comments about Renault and their engines after them powering them to drivers titles. They always come across as the rich spoiled kid at school who keeps threatening to take his ball home if he's not winning, or the bell whiff dad reffing a kids footie game who wants all the decisions for his team.
I'm sick of them.
Randy
Well-known member
Your first paragraph is exactly what I've just sadi about the driver meetings and the relationships the drivers have with one another off of the racetrack. Also you and I don't know if they've spoken or not behind closed doors but because ay discussion they may have had wasn't posted on social media or seen on live TV you all assume Max is the big bad wolf.
Nobody stopped to check Grosjean was ok after his car was sliced in half and burst into a ball of flames. Nobody stopped and went to check on Jules Bianchi when he spun off and hit that tractor. Why? Because a race track isn't a place to be hanging around when your outside of the car. Could Max have stuck his head in and asked if he was ok? Probably yes. Is he a villain because he walked away from two potentially 'live' cars piled up at a chicane where drivers are braking from 100+mph with adrenaline running through both driver's veins? No.
Max has been punished rightly or wrongly. Line drawn under it. It won't be the last time both driver's are in accidents. They'll both move on and continue this great rivalry which has been superb for the sport this season.
BoroMart
Well-known member
the marshalls were already on teh scene, and there was no way the drivers could get there fast because they would beach in teh gravel trap. What they did do, including hamilton was ask for the welfare of the driver over the radio.
Max was on the scene, first person on the scene, and just walked away, without a single word......it's sociopathy and I'd guarantee if the roles were reversed Hamilton would check on him and only walk away if he got a thumbs up
Marvanelli
Well-known member
Verstappen is a liability, not only to himself, but to others.
He's an accident waiting to happen every time he gets behind a wheel.
He's a fabulous driver and he could easily go on to become a great, but lets not take this away from the fact he is arguably the most reckless driver at the moment.
Lewis has had his fair share of incidents and crashes, but Max is on another level.
Anyone defending Max, is basically admitting they have an agenda against Lewis.
Max needs controlling before he ends up doing something unforgivable.
SmallTown
Well-known member
Utterly, utterly ridiculous comparisons. In those cases did anyone crash on top of Grosjean or Bianchi? Did anyone even know about Bianchis freak accident until after the race? Did you not here the team radios after Grosjean? All the drivers asking if he was OK or if he got out.
I'm sorry Randy you've made a mistake with these attempted comparisons. It shows you aren't quite understanding what is being said.
Spraggons Den
Active member
As a Williams fan I can look at this from a neutral point of view.
1. Max probably wasn't aware that this real wheel had driven over Lewis's head as he was probably bracing for the impact he was about to make with the gravel trap.
2. Whilst Max was getting out of his car Lewis was actually trying to reverse his car away from the incident and was therefore in control of the vehicle and was continuing to try and drive his car away as Max walked past.
So Should Max have checked on Lewis when he was trying to drive his car away from the accident or just walked off like he did? I see it as 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.
1. Max probably wasn't aware that this real wheel had driven over Lewis's head as he was probably bracing for the impact he was about to make with the gravel trap.
2. Whilst Max was getting out of his car Lewis was actually trying to reverse his car away from the incident and was therefore in control of the vehicle and was continuing to try and drive his car away as Max walked past.
So Should Max have checked on Lewis when he was trying to drive his car away from the accident or just walked off like he did? I see it as 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.
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BoroFur
Well-known member
Where did Max walk after getting out of the car?
Straight onto the track that's where.
Not to the Marshall or the barrier but ONTO the track.
These comments comparing the situation to Grosjean and Bianchi are ridiculous.
Hamilton's car wasn't on fire and he hadn't driven into a tractor.
If he thought it was unsafe to check on the wellbeing of a competitor why did he commit the greater unsafe act of jaywalking?
Straight onto the track that's where.
Not to the Marshall or the barrier but ONTO the track.
These comments comparing the situation to Grosjean and Bianchi are ridiculous.
Hamilton's car wasn't on fire and he hadn't driven into a tractor.
If he thought it was unsafe to check on the wellbeing of a competitor why did he commit the greater unsafe act of jaywalking?
WeeGord
Well-known member
If it were not for the halo it's very likely that Lewis Hamilton would have been seriously hurt or even worse. Given the direction of the steering wheel I'm not convinced that Verstappen didn't do that intentionally, and had Hamilton have been hurt or even worse I suspect there'd have been huge consequences for him. Verstappen is a very, very lucky boy IMHO.
WoodallServices
Well-known member
The didn’t “drive” over Hamilton’s car his Verstappen’s back wheel rolled up around Lewis’s wheel in a freak fashion that if you tried a thousand time’s you probably wouldn’t repeat.
Lewis was trying to reverse his car out so safe to assume he was alright although it doesn’t excuse the discourtesy of not checking which is typical of a spoilt brat.
Horner did’t say anything because Lewis was out of the race so job done. However if hypothetically Lewis had managed to get his car out and got a point we would never have heard the last of it.
Lewis was trying to reverse his car out so safe to assume he was alright although it doesn’t excuse the discourtesy of not checking which is typical of a spoilt brat.
Horner did’t say anything because Lewis was out of the race so job done. However if hypothetically Lewis had managed to get his car out and got a point we would never have heard the last of it.
Randy
Well-known member
You'll notice from the replays Max's rear wheels were also spinning, wonder if he thought he was still on the ground and not propped up in the air.