EU making a pigs breakfast of vaccination programme

Same_as_before said:
Again any good news is put down to it would have been the same under Brexit. It's the ongoing mantra.

See Nissan.

Any debate is pointless.
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rubbish - would've been possible to do our own thin with vaccines so stop spreading misinformation AGAIN about the EU's influence over the UK (SOON TO BE ENGLAND ONLY) 🤣
 
ChrisTheRed said:
We had to do it that way. Surely it is better to have 15m people with some help as opposed to 7.5m with full. Let's be honest unless we had 120m vaccine doses then it is all about doing the best we can.
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OR Vaccinate 7.5m KNOWING the are sorted versus guessing if 15m are ok. How will this allow any older people some confidence to get out if they still feel unsure whether they are covered or not.
 
SmallTown said:
I don't, and I work in the industry. How do you know its not about safety and efficacy?
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It’s been deemed safe and sufficiently efficacious for EUA by the U.K., India, Brazil, Argentina so far. They all managed to get hold of the necessary data to make that appraisal. Or do you believe there are still major questions around the safety and efficacy of the vaccine and those countries are all just acting irresponsibly?
 
FabioPorkpie said:
It’s been deemed safe and sufficiently efficacious for EUA by the U.K., India, Brazil, Argentina so far. They all managed to get hold of the necessary data to make that appraisal. Or do you believe there are still major questions around the safety and efficacy of the vaccine and those countries are all just acting irresponsibly?
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I'm saying the EMA clearly have a different process for approval, maybe it's more robust? Maybe they are missing some data that ANVISA or the MHRA didn't need?

So when you it definitely ISN'T due to safety or efficacy what you mean is it suits your prejudices to say it isn't, but you can't provide evidence to back you up.
 
We don't know that they would be sorted though do we and they would still be passing the virus around so it would be a drop in the ocean.

Let's face it a new variant that has mutated enough and it all starts again anyway.
 
SmallTown said:
I'm saying the EMA clearly have a different process for approval, maybe it's more robust? Maybe they are missing some data that ANVISA or the MHRA didn't need?

So when you it definitely ISN'T due to safety or efficacy what you mean is it suits your prejudices to say it isn't, but you can't provide evidence to back you up.
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OK boss. You’re the expert on these things.......
 
Without wishing to get drawn into one of your sprawling round-the-houses pointless arguments, I should add that as somebody who is very pro-EU and firmly in the remain camp, I have no prejudices against the EU.

You know, you are able to be disappointed with the EU with regards to their apparent lack of urgency in even looking at approving the AstraZeneca vaccine in this global emergency, where every day counts, without it meaning you hate the EU or are an advocate for Brexit.

Likewise, I can give credit to the government when they appear to do something well ( which is incredibly rare at the moment) such as procurement and securing early supply of vaccines, without it meaning I’m a Tory voter.....

I don’t give government credit for the rollout itself - that praise is reserved for the NHS.
 
FabioPorkpie said:
Without wishing to get drawn into one of your sprawling round-the-houses pointless arguments, I should add that as somebody who is very pro-EU and firmly in the remain camp, I have no prejudices against the EU.

You know, you are able to be disappointed with the EU with regards to their apparent lack of urgency in even looking at approving the AstraZeneca vaccine in this global emergency, where every day counts, without it meaning you hate the EU or are an advocate for Brexit.

Likewise, I can give credit to the government when they appear to do something well ( which is incredibly rare at the moment) such as procurement and securing early supply of vaccines, without it meaning I’m a Tory voter.....

I don’t give government credit for the rollout itself - that praise is reserved for the NHS.
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I agree with all that.

However I feel the decision about changing the period to 12 weeks between the jabs without seeing any results from other trials (as there were not any) was a mistake.

It has also left some people who were promised a 3 week period when they were first injected not getting what they were promised.

So even when doing something well they still manage to screw things up.

UPDATED: PS Please note I have deliberately not mentioned Brexit in my responses. As I do not want to get into that argument on this thread.
 
It's a bit too early to be pointing a condescending finger at EU countries. We are pursuing a high risk strategy against the advice of vaccine manufacturers to "get jabs in people's arms".

The bottleneck will happen if there are vulnerable groups still requiring the vaccine when the 12 weeks is up for the first people who received it.

It's a maths race and we cannot have any supply issues. I just wish that government ministers would stop claiming that people are "vaccinated" when only having one jab, it's bad messaging and false.
 

Could other nations adopt 12-week vaccine gap?​

Philippa Roxby
Health reporter, BBC News
A nurse administers the Covid vaccine into a patient's arm
Getty ImagesCopyright: Getty Images
Earlier we told you how a professor has defended the policy being adopted in the UK for a leaving a gap of up to 12 weeks between the first and second doses of the Covid vaccines.
Professor Adam Finn, a member of the government’s committee on vaccine strategy, has said this is based on “rock-solid evidence”.
Speaking in a personal capacity to the BBC Today programme, he said doubling the number of people who are being protected in the short term, by giving them a first dose, would save more lives.
Prof Finn also said he expected to see the impact of the current dosing strategy in the numbers admitted to hospital by the end of this week.
At the weekend, the union representing doctors, the BMA, said the gap between doses for the Pfizer jab should be shortened to six weeks.
But Prof Finn said based on knowledge of how other vaccines work, there is likely to be better protection after the second dose when it’s delayed.
The UK may be an outlier in the way it’s organised the vaccine rollout, with the World Health Organization saying it would recommend a six-week gap between doses in extreme circumstances only, but it is possible other countries could follow suit if the data backs up the current strategy.
 
I seem to recall a thread a few weeks back where Tony Blair had suggested the approach the government have taken and was upheld as some form of Vaccine Genius.
 
Regardless of whether we are following WHO guidelines for adminsitration of the vaccine doses, we are still injecting more doses than the rest of Europe which is a good thing.

I don't know if the EU procurement is to blame for the slow rollout of the vaccine within the EU or not, but if it is, and the UK were offerred to join the EU procurement, then not joining the EU procurement is responsible for our quicker rollout.
 
spanishman said:
I agree with all that.

However I feel the decision about changing the period to 12 weeks between the jabs without seeing any results from other trials (as there were not any) was a mistake.

It has also left some people who were promised a 3 week period when they were first injected not getting what they were promised.

So even when doing something well they still manage to screw things up.

UPDATED: PS Please note I have deliberately not mentioned Brexit in my responses. As I do not want to get into that argument on this thread.
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I believe those who were given the initial dose BEFORE the decision to extend the periods between doses was made, will still have their second dose around the normal 3 week interval.
I agree that in an ideal world the second dose should be given as per the trial dosing regimen. However, I also think that the science behind what the JCVI and MHRA and SAGE say in respect of extending the gap between doses makes sense, at least in theory. I can understand why they have made that call. I do believe that they will be looking at the data as it rolls in and adjusting if required, so it’s not set in stone.

I think there is a lot of misunderstanding and misinterpretation in the media, around the extended period between doses which is unhelpful.

Hopefully the vaccination program accelerates around the world and we can start to get on top of this damn virus
 
Cooper671 said:
I seem to recall a thread a few weeks back where Tony Blair had suggested the approach the government have taken and was upheld as some form of Vaccine Genius.
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It wasnt the governments initial approach though, time will tell if this decision is the correct one.

I would rather we had focused on ensuring the most vulnerable people are fully vaccinated within the manufacturers guidelines.
 
FabioPorkpie said:
I believe those who were given the initial dose BEFORE the decision to extend the periods between doses was made, will still have their second dose around the normal 3 week interval.
I agree that in an ideal world the second dose should be given as per the trial dosing regimen. However, I also think that the science behind what the JCVI and MHRA and SAGE say in respect of extending the gap between doses makes sense, at least in theory. I can understand why they have made that call. I do believe that they will be looking at the data as it rolls in and adjusting if required, so it’s not set in stone.

I think there is a lot of misunderstanding and misinterpretation in the media, around the extended period between doses which is unhelpful.

Hopefully the vaccination program accelerates around the world and we can start to get on top of this damn virus
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On another thread I have already had discussions on here where this is shown to be not true. They have family members in this situation. I will update this post with a link to it in a minute.

Here is the link: https://fmttmboro.com/index.php?thr...from-13-january-2021.13572/page-6#post-295204
 
Tell us the UK vaccination programme is a great success when it has been fully rolled out and we can go back to normal living.

Last news report I heard we are running out of it.

I think it’s a wait and see from me.

And what does it matter to us what the EU are doing?
 
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