Elizabeth the Last

BlindBoyGrunt said:
True but now he can't go over his mam's doorstep.
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If she was worth anything as a national leader she would have done the right thing and let him face trial. Never mind bailing him out with money from the fortune forked out for her 'duties' (which she's currently not fulfilling).

This money from the taxpayer has tripled from 2012, from £30m to almost £90m for this year.

Take it all back.
 
SuperStu said:
Probably a correlation vs causation issue. How many of the top 10 are former imperialist powers and how many of the lowest ranked nations are former colonies?
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I didn't actually argue that monarchy causes a civilisation to be more advanced. I don't believe that.

Rather, it was a counterargument to the suggestion that monarchies are somehow backwards or primitive. I don't believe that either.
 
I don't think there's anything wrong with having a monarch. There is a function for a head of state to exist. My problem is how we decide who is the monarch. That shouldn't be hereditary. No role that makes decisions on how other people live should be hereditary.

Imagine if the monarchy didn't exist and someone suggested it. They'd be locked up in an institution.

Any step in a democracy that puts people further away from the decision making process is a negative. Nothing should be a given.
 
Nano said:
I don't think there's anything wrong with having a monarch. There is a function for a head of state to exist. My problem is how we decide who is the monarch. That shouldn't be hereditary. No role that makes decisions on how other people live should be hereditary.

Imagine if the monarchy didn't exist and someone suggested it. They'd be locked up in an institution.

Any step in a democracy that puts people further away from the decision making process is a negative. Nothing should be a given.
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The Irish model, for instance. Michael D Higgins currently. 7 year term with a max of 2 terms.
 
We need a Head of State. It was recently demonstrated that the Queen is not a functional Head of State she is merely a ceremonial figure head, she reads the program of "her" government and they crack on with it. When Johnson prorogued Parliament he lied to her, she would have known that he was lying but she did not stop him or deny him. A true functional HoS could and arguably should have done so.

Additionally, the presence of a Monarch legitimises the maintenance of the "status quo" the entrenchment of privilege, so we get massive advantage passed from one generation of the privileged to the next, they attend the "right" schools (which are granted tax breaks incompatible with their function) they establish contacts and threads of communication between the "elite" that allows them advantage throughout their lives that is denied to the "low born". All this is legitimised by the hereditary nature of the Royals.

It is also seriously unhealthy for those born into the "goldfish bowl" of "The Firm" no choice over what they will do with their lives. An empty existence of ribbon cutting and networking. Prince Nonce and his round of parties, and whatever it is that the others do to fill their days when they are not waving from the back seat of a Rolls Royce?

It's time we grew up, it's time we truly gave equal opportunity to all. And it's not just about some socialist dream of everyone driving a Rolls-Royce come the revolution. We see the results of our unequal system no better demonstrated than in the succession of Eton educated failures in high office. They come through a system of privilege and have such self belief in themselves that they fail upwards and end up running the bl**dy country without the honest self awareness that they are not capable or suitable for doing so. Perhaps the person best suited to be Prime Minister in 2070 is currently attending a Comprehensive School in Stockton-on-Tees, but I doubt it, he has little chance, even now the person who WILL be PM in 2070 is probably relaxing in the dorms of Eton.

Queen Elizabeth seems a decent lady who has given service to the country, no doubt about it, she has never shirked (within the constraints placed upon her by the Government) so in that respect and many others she is worthy of respect. That does not mean that the institution of the British Monarchy is not long overdue for removal. It is.
 
We - no country - needs a single head of state / PM or President.. indeed single person as leader is just such a stupid idea, esp in a modern world..

All need to change if we're to progress.. look what Trump tried to do, Xi has done & what Putin us doing now: concentrated power in the hands of one individual can be catastrophic for not just the country, but the world..

Big changes needed.. vision & accountability..
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
The Irish model, for instance. Michael D Higgins currently. 7 year term with a max of 2 terms.
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There's a suprise. Of all of the countries in the world.

My god it really is a perfect country. No thick as mince, stupid people there. Why do they emigrate from the land of honey.

I just watched a series of documentaries ' Dirty Money' written and directed by Irish journalists for an Irish TV organisation. They missed out on the honey.

I ignore the national anthem too, it's appalling. If I had a decent whistle that's what I'd do when it was played.
www.google.com

Irish ex-minister jailed

Ray Burke, the former Irish justice minister, who was known as Rambo and took over £100,000 in bribes during the worst years of Irish sleaze, was yesterday jailed for six months for tax evasion.
www.google.com www.google.com
 
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Littlejimmy said:
I have no personal truck with Liz. I can even admire or at least respect her for being there and heading up an institution and country which has changed massively in her 70 years on the throne. She hasn't always been beyond reproach, of course. The way she dealt with Prince Andrew and Diana wasn't really clever. Either way, the fact is the Royal Family is a symbol of inherited and unmerited privilege, an archaic system which is being preserved while people struggle to keep themselves fed and warm. We can keep the bank holidays (given to us thanks to Trade Unions), we can still have pubs named with Kings' and Queens' appendages, and we can still have tourists coming to see the buildings and statues from our rich history. It's not like they're going to see the Queen in person, is it? France manages it fine.
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This is a very well reasoned post this. A lot of republicans are like "what's the point of the queen, off with her head" you manage to argue against the monarchy without being disrespectful to them. Good points
 
Flood said:
Cue the cap doffers mentioning how much money the Royals bring into this country via tourism. Turf them out of Buck Palace and turn it into a University, put all thier jewels and heirlooms on show in museums. Hereditary privelage/wealth is a disease.
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I'd turn the palaces into state owned hotels and charge chinese businessmen 20k a night to stay in them, it'd make a fortune for the nation.
 
Boro in Devon said:
If we got rid of them, how would we deal with the following.

Whose head would be on coins/notes
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Well what makes this country great? The scientists, artists, inventors and engineers not some old interfering biddy in a metal hat. We should have truly great brits on the FRONT of them like Lennon, McCartney, Bowie, Newton, Hawking, Lovelace, Fereday, Constable, Lowry, Stephenson and Brunel. People that acheived something, learned something, touched people (No Prince Andrew comments!)
 
Muttley said:
We need a Head of State. It was recently demonstrated that the Queen is not a functional Head of State she is merely a ceremonial figure head, she reads the program of "her" government and they crack on with it. When Johnson prorogued Parliament he lied to her, she would have known that he was lying but she did not stop him or deny him. A true functional HoS could and arguably should have done so.
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certainly the argument that the monarchy protects democracy has been utterly debunked by the shenanigans of this government, you can even put the brexit vote in. Any form of decent governance wouldn't have allowed the vote in the form it took.

However her and her cohorts have been happy to get involved in laws that are of financial impact to themselves, that isn't democracy either. And of course Charles and his Black Spider Letters proves it is endemic in teh institution to meddle.
 
Same_as_before said:
of I was ever infront of her I would bow my head. I do it in church every Sunday to my God.
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rule 1 of the ten commandment's - DO NOT WORSHIP FALSE GODS - This woman is the head of a made up religion, its called the church of england.!


Some catholic you are - next time you are at confession dont forget to raise it with Very Rev Canon John Lumley, BA, BD, PGCE, MTh - he will explain to it you and set you 10 hail marys, 2 glory Be's and a 10 minutes contemplation of what its all about.
 
Same_as_before said:
There's a suprise. Of all of the countries in the world.

My god it really is a perfect country. No thick as mince, stupid people there. Why do they emigrate from the land of honey.

I just watched a series of documentaries ' Dirty Money' written and directed by Irish journalists for an Irish TV organisation. They missed out on the honey.

I ignore the national anthem too, it's appalling. If I had a decent whistle that's what I'd do when it was played.
www.google.com

Irish ex-minister jailed

Ray Burke, the former Irish justice minister, who was known as Rambo and took over £100,000 in bribes during the worst years of Irish sleaze, was yesterday jailed for six months for tax evasion.
www.google.com www.google.com
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:ROFLMAO: The bitterness in this reply SameAs. Deary me. Also isn't it a bit hypocritical to say you'd whistle through another country's anthem if you're so bothered by the idea of someone doing the same through God Save the Queen?
 
Chutney said:
It's a peculiar form of abuse that we're in a situation where a 96 year old woman is denied rest and retirement because of "tradition".

Have no time for the royals, and I'm not blind to the unearned privilege she's benefitted from for the whole of those years, but even so, that's ****ed up.
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Not denied at all. It's her choice to carry on.
 
Same_as_before said:
There's a suprise. Of all of the countries in the world.

My god it really is a perfect country. No thick as mince, stupid people there. Why do they emigrate from the land of honey.

I just watched a series of documentaries ' Dirty Money' written and directed by Irish journalists for an Irish TV organisation. They missed out on the honey.

I ignore the national anthem too, it's appalling. If I had a decent whistle that's what I'd do when it was played.
www.google.com

Irish ex-minister jailed

Ray Burke, the former Irish justice minister, who was known as Rambo and took over £100,000 in bribes during the worst years of Irish sleaze, was yesterday jailed for six months for tax evasion.
www.google.com www.google.com
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It's like shelling peas.
 
BoroMart said:
Well what makes this country great? The scientists, artists, inventors and engineers not some old interfering biddy in a metal hat. We should have truly great brits on the FRONT of them like Lennon, McCartney, Bowie, Newton, Hawking, Lovelace, Fereday, Constable, Lowry, Stephenson and Brunel. People that acheived something, learned something, touched people (No Prince Andrew comments!)
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What have you got against Jake Thackray like?
 
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