Elizabeth Oakshot!!

I would have thought they would have gone up in the first, yet they didn't. I suspect that the crisis will come as the pandemic subsides. It's called PTSD for a reason.

This is not to trivialise the risks to mental health just to show that you deal with the crisis happening now not what might or will happen in six - twelve months time.
 
atypical_boro said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1354220612663783425

These are the actual comments, which to be fair are nothing like what was 'paraphrased' in the OP. She didn't mention obesity?

"The vast majority were very elderly and had comorbidities."
Click to expand...
she wanted restrictions lifted in the summer, if the government had listened to her public whining we would be at 150k deaths now. Yet here she is again, wanting restrictions reduced. That tells you everything you need to know about this vile woman.
 
atypical_boro said:
I'm sure that's true. I would be amazed if they don't go up in this (third?) lockdown though, when you add the seasonal impact into the mix, and the 'fatigue' aspect.
Click to expand...
why would they go up, if they didn't go up un first lockdown? I mean the fact it is winter irrelevant as 'going up' would take into account the seasonal variance it's compared against
 
BoroMart said:
she wanted restrictions lifted in the summer, if the government had listened to her public whining we would be at 150k deaths now. Yet here she is again, wanting restrictions reduced. That tells you everything you need to know about this vile woman.
Click to expand...
We had restrictions lifted in the summer, was that the wrong thing to do? I can't imagine what state we'd be in now if we'd had 10+ solid months of this at this point. Less deaths? Maybe, but maybe lots of other deaths for other reasons (and an even worse economy and much more poverty).

I don't personally feel the need to conclude someone is 'vile' for wanting restrictions lifted, there are lots of different reasons why someone would be on that side of the debate. Currently, I don't want restrictions lifted, but there might come a time in the future where some people don't and I do. Its just a difference of opinion, no one is setting out to kill anyone, but it comes down to your perception of utilitarianism. Some people would probably argue that saving one life is worth extending lockdown for, but I think there has to be a balance with these things.

I've never really liked Oakeshott though and I'm not saying she isn't vile, just that I wouldn't conclude it purely from her views on this and I think the OP (and the tweet above accompanying the footage) was a bit exaggerated regarding her comments.
 
BoroMart said:
why would they go up, if they didn't go up un first lockdown? I mean the fact it is winter irrelevant as 'going up' would take into account the seasonal variance it's compared against
Click to expand...
Indeed, that's a good point. There may be no way of knowing whether its purely down to winter, or a combination of winter and covid, if indeed they do increase. But the same can be said of lots of these statistics. There is no definitive answer. There are millions of facts and statistics, and then exponentially more different interpretations of them.
 
atypical_boro said:
We had restrictions lifted in the summer, was that the wrong thing to do? I can't imagine what state we'd be in now if we'd had 10+ solid months of this at this point. Less deaths? Maybe, but maybe lots of other deaths for other reasons (and an even worse economy and much more poverty).
Click to expand...
Let's just be clear about what I'm saying.........she wanted the pandemic "declared as over". She wanted ALL restrictions lifted, that would have been an absolute disaster in terms of life and to be honest every business except undertakers. So, I 100% stand by my comments that she is vile, because she was fully aware that this wasn't over but was more interested in her and her brexit beau earning money than poor people and their pesky right to life.
 
BoroMart said:
Let's just be clear about what I'm saying.........she wanted the pandemic "declared as over". She wanted ALL restrictions lifted, that would have been an absolute disaster in terms of life and to be honest every business except undertakers.
Click to expand...
I can't remember when she said them, but there was a point where we were down to zero deaths and the government (along with the CHO's blessing) encouraged us all to go out and eat in restaurants MORE than we otherwise would have. You could forgive someone for thinking we had come to the end of the road at that point I think.

I can't imagine there is a single human being in this country whose views haven't changed several times since this nightmare began. We're all fed new information from opposing quarters every single day, and she is probably no different.
 
atypical_boro said:
There may be no way of knowing whether its purely down to winter, or a combination of winter and covid, if indeed they do increase.
Click to expand...
excess deaths are above and beyond a normal year, where people freely intermingle and spread viruses. It's clear that allowing some mingling has spread the disease, it's clear this is way more contagious and has a higher morbidity than flu's and has long lasting impacts on survivors. The only outstanding question is by how much these negatives are bigger.
 
BoroMart said:
excess deaths are above and beyond a normal year, where people freely intermingle and spread viruses. It's clear that allowing some mingling has spread the disease, it's clear this is way more contagious and has a higher morbidity than flu's and has long lasting impacts on survivors. The only outstanding question is by how much these negatives are bigger.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure how reliable excess deaths are in support of lockdown specifically though, because if you believe what you read (and I take it all with a pinch of salt) there are lots of illnesses going undiagnosed *because* of lockdowns. I've no idea though. Basically, all I want to see is a balanced approach that benefits society as a whole.
 
atypical_boro said:
I can't remember when she said them, but there was a point where we were down to zero deaths and the government (along with the CHO's blessing) encouraged us all to go out and eat in restaurants MORE than we otherwise would have. You could forgive someone for thinking we had come to the end of the road at that point I think.
Click to expand...
No you couldn't. The numbers were low because we had gone through 3 strict months of isolation, not because we had herd immunity or a vaccine. Declaring the pandemic as over is NOT valid comment at that time. There was zero validity to it. It was clear that if you removed the measures that had protected us, the infections would skyrocket again. this isn't rocket science, she knows this now and knew it then. She was just more interested in her and Richard Tice's financial investments.
 
Soutra said:
I think it's dreadfully insensitive to say it like that, however -

1. The average lifespan of people in the UK is about 83 years
2. The average age of people dying WITH Covid is 83 years, and the modal age is 84
3. The 100k number includes everyone whose death certificate mentions Covid, irrespective of the major cause


If you can reconcile these three facts with Isabel Oakeshott being wrong, then please explain it to me. I'm not suggesting what she says is wise or compassionate, but as far as I can see, she is right.
Click to expand...
atypical_boro said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1354220612663783425

These are the actual comments, which to be fair are nothing like what was 'paraphrased' in the OP. She didn't mention obesity?

"The vast majority were very elderly and had comorbidities."
Click to expand...
I don’t for one minute think anyone apart from you and one or two others actually thought without seeing it she said “a load of old fogeys’s and fat knackers” but having just watched it again myself that’s EXACTLY what she meant!!
 
She’s a mouthpiece for Tice, among others. Tice is part of the renter class, and is getting getting hammered.
Huge investments in office space, gyms and various other, now closed establishments. Both of them have been at the forefront of people must return to their places of work....offices. Just as the companies have realised thousands can be saved on rents, and the working from home actually suits both employees and employers.
That’s always been one of the subtexts of her rants.
 
WoodallServices said:
I don’t for one minute think anyone apart from you and one or two others actually thought without seeing it she said “a load of old fogeys’s and fat knackers” but having just watched it again myself that’s EXACTLY what she meant!!
Click to expand...
She literally didn't mention obesity?

She did say the vast majority of the 100,000 deaths are elderly and with comorbidities. Was that wrong?
 
Last edited:
BoroMart said:
No you couldn't. The numbers were low because we had gone through 3 strict months of isolation, not because we had herd immunity or a vaccine. Declaring the pandemic as over is NOT valid comment at that time. There was zero validity to it. It was clear that if you removed the measures that had protected us, the infections would skyrocket again. this isn't rocket science, she knows this now and knew it then. She was just more interested in her and Richard Tice's financial investments.
Click to expand...
Ok. Well I can't imagine I will, nor do I want to, convince you she is a good person. I don't know a lot about her personal life really, and I've never really liked her, but she is just a woman with an opinion. If the government ignored her last summer, her influence doesn't particularly worry me.
 
In a normal year, about 600,000 people die in UK. Deaths in 2020 were 700,000, so clearly more people died than were "going to die" from other causes.
 
The death rate in the UK was 12.1% above the expected excess deaths it's the best metric to judge the impact of Covid has had on mortality in Britain as it is adjusted in line with trends and expectations which change due to advances in medicine and care.
 
I think sometimes people struggle with things not being good/bad.

This is bad/bad.

Both covid and the lockdown have had a truly appalling effect. I don't really see why there is a need to minimise one or the other.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top