Electric cars Depreciation

Yeah, that would annoy me if I had to deal with it often.

I think experienced EV drivers that understand it, will be fine with this, and their lives will be easier for it too, but I can see a lot of others not giving a toss, or not understanding well enough. The latter are the same types who would pull up at a 7kW, when there's a 100kW at the other end of the car park, and get themselves into a rage wondering why it's charging so slow.

It's in peoples best interest to learn and work together but we know that's never going to happen as well as it could, as plenty won't do that, but they will be their own worst enemy as always. This is why we need a push from regulators to force manufacturers to make their cars take faster charging speeds, especially those with big batteries.

As soon as the public realise it's smaller batteries, better efficiency, with faster charging that is most optimum, rather than excessive range, things will be a lot better. Manufacturers realised that people didn't understand this though, so used massive amounts of budget on longer range/ larger batteries and penny pinched with slower charging with some, doesn't make much sense for the collective, but it will sell cars that's for sure.
Thays the problem isn't it? Ever since GM invented range anxiety to save it's ICE cars it's been a topic of obsession with everyone to scared to adopt EV. So much so that this thread has an almost constant battle with people thinking they want a certain range when most EV owners would find the idea silly.

Random example I know but the cupra born can be got with 2 battery packs. A small and a large one. I calculated a road trip from my house to Venice and despite the 100 mile less range the small battery pack had a quicker journey time. Despite needing to be charged quite a few more times en route. I assume quicker charging times and better efficency of the lighter car, especially when driving up the alps, made it quicker
 
I've owned an EV for coming up four years. I am self-employed and a business owner, so the tax benefits made it a no-brainer. I do have access to other vehicles within the household including a 5 litre V8!
I had a home charger installed prior to the car being delivered, so I was ready from the get-go.

When I first started out charging whilst out and about it wasn't that bad. However, the infrastructure couldn't keep up with the increase of EV's on the road and I found myself favouring an ICE car, rather than my EV, on long journeys to avoid the hassle.

Recently I took delivery of another EV (same type as my previous EV) and thought I would give long journeys a whirl again. I was pleasantly surprised as to how much better things have got.

I travelled to Southampton from Teesside to watch the mighty Boro over Easter. I stopped at Fosse retail park in Leicester (350kwh chargers), walked to McDonalds, ate and returned. Car was back at 100%. Travelled to a Premier inn in Southampton and parked in the multi-storey behind the hotel. There were half a dozen 11kwh chargers there so I hooked up and went to check in. A day later I was ready to return and with the car on 100% again I set off and did the whole journey in reverse. Lunch was a costa this time, at Fosse, rather than a Maccy D's. Car was back at 100% and we made it back to Teesside with around 15% charge. I coupled the car up to my home charger and it topped up on my 7p/kw cheap rate overnight tariff back to 80%.

I am not saying they are perfect, far from it. What I will say is there is a very unfair public perception, mainly from people who have never even driven one, let alone owned one.

It is like everything else in life........
Horses for courses.

Be nice everybody!
 
When I first started out charging whilst out and about it wasn't that bad. However, the infrastructure couldn't keep up with the increase of EV's on the road and I found myself favouring an ICE car, rather than my EV, on long journeys to avoid the hassle.
What year was that, I'm thinking it was around 2-3 years ago?

There did seem a period where the number of EV's on the road was rapidly increasing, outpacing faster chargers chargers, but they were also only putting in 50kW and 100kW chargers at most and even that seemed slow. Covid didn't help construction of them mind, but more to do with approvals rather than the physical work. To be honest I think they were just aiming charge speeds at the manufacturers (most cars were sub 100kW charging speed), but once the Taycan and Polestar were touching 300kW they knew they had to up that speed, and think Tesla were up to 250kW pretty quickly on their own cars and network.

I think there was only one place in the country which had 350kW chargers 2-3 years ago? There are loads now, especially along the main routes, where most needed, which is great. I think Gridserve are only half way through their current plans, but loads of others are making their own networks too. Just need the prices of charging at them to come down a bit, but they will once the initial investment has been paid off and competition drives prices down. I don't mind the high prices though, as like many I very rarely use the public chargers, but they will need to come down for others who can't home charge or spend their life on the road.

Faster chargers really are the key.

This is the current map of 350kW locations, was surprised how many there already are. There are some holes there though which need plugging, along the motorways, but it's certainly coming, and seems to have more than kept up for now.

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I know this isn’t uk based but I was planning a European road trip for this autumn and was amazed at all the chargers there were in France, Switzerland and Italy. The infrastructure problems do exist but I believe they are vastly over stated. Went to a wedding in Germany a few years ago and the German’s were like “you are crazy, you can’t drive an EV here” I did have one issue, that then created another one: broken chargers in Lubek, which we visited en route meant I had to add an extra stop to the trip and I stupidly relied on Tesla to plan so it gave me a ridiculously long super charger stop because it almost never plans none supercharger fast chargers. But I don’t consider that too bad for 2500km of motoring, some of it at very high speeds
 
I don't have nor can i get a home charger, at the moment you are getting cheap electricity and paying no road tax this state of affairs can not continue for the goverment is losing revenue hand over fist.
If i use public chargers i will be buying electricity at a higher rate than those with a home charger so i see no incentive to change from my hybrid yaris.
Also if i buy an ev new the depreciation can be horrific .
 
I don't have nor can i get a home charger, at the moment you are getting cheap electricity and paying no road tax this state of affairs can not continue for the goverment is losing revenue hand over fist.
If i use public chargers i will be buying electricity at a higher rate than those with a home charger so i see no incentive to change from my hybrid yaris.
Also if i buy an ev new the depreciation can be horrific .
Road tax is coming in next year. It's £10 for the first year of new cars and £165 in the years after.
 
I don't have nor can i get a home charger, at the moment you are getting cheap electricity and paying no road tax this state of affairs can not continue for the goverment is losing revenue hand over fist.
If i use public chargers i will be buying electricity at a higher rate than those with a home charger so i see no incentive to change from my hybrid yaris.
Also if i buy an ev new the depreciation can be horrific .
All cars depreciate, I think we've covered that one.
And your fuel will still be cheaper than your Yaris
 
I don't have nor can i get a home charger, at the moment you are getting cheap electricity and paying no road tax this state of affairs can not continue for the goverment is losing revenue hand over fist.
If i use public chargers i will be buying electricity at a higher rate than those with a home charger so i see no incentive to change from my hybrid yaris.
Also if i buy an ev new the depreciation can be horrific .
It's not ideal if you can't charge at home, however a lot of employers are adding chargers to employee car parks. There are occasional free chargers and lot of people have solar now for pretty much free power, or time of use tariffs for cheap.

Buying any new ev or ice car is a mugs game imo, depreciation the second you drive either away. New cards are nice but imo are for people on leases or that have too much money laid around, or that won't sell it for a long time so don't actually care about depreciation. Everyone else would just buy a year or two old after that depreciation hit.

The incentive for me is the cost of the vehicle was similar but the driving of it has cost us very little so far. I'll be getting paid to charge it tomorrow.

Girlfriend does 70-90 miles a day 3 times a week for work and if old car broke down she has 24h to get a replacement so we needed something newer and reliable than my 16 year old focus. So far it's been class and I'd struggle to want an ICE now. I fancied buying a 2 seater sporty car for weekends etc but it would be a hard sell for me now
 
I don't have nor can i get a home charger, at the moment you are getting cheap electricity and paying no road tax this state of affairs can not continue for the goverment is losing revenue hand over fist.
If i use public chargers i will be buying electricity at a higher rate than those with a home charger so i see no incentive to change from my hybrid yaris.
Also if i buy an ev new the depreciation can be horrific .
Everyone's getting cheap electricity if they put themselves on the right tariff, there's a 62 page thread on it here which has been running over a year which is on the first page every day.

There's no reason to think that the unit rate per kW will go up either, it's not like Russia can cut any more of the EU's gas, it supplies practically none already, nobody is turning the wind off, and the amount of supply from wind increases year on year (and it's cheaper than gas). My unit rate now is less than before the war even kicked off, and in fact it's lower than 2011. It should be even lower than that, as the energy companies are still massively profiteering, that's what needs to be taxed/ stopped. Energy is becoming greener, tax on that will possibly reduce or stay the same, where as the opposite is true for fossil fuels.

There's no such thing as road tax, the roads are paid for through general tax. The roads are **** though, but blame the 14 year government for that.

You're right about public chargers, the cost on them is ludicrous compared to home charging, so it's hard to make it make sense for someone who can't charge at home, or until "pump" prices come down, but they're still less than petrol if the EV is economical. They will come down though, competition will drive them down, and a lot of them are probably overcharging to pay off the infrastructure cost first.
Tesla superhcagers cost ~60p and most of their cars do ~4-5 miles per kW, so that's 15p per mile at worst, if every mile was from a supercharger (nobody does this), a 40mpg car cost the same as this per mile.

Depreciation is pretty much the same across the board. Sure, EV's have depreciated more in the last year or whatever, but it's only to bring them back to reality, or parity with ice cars, some have possibly overcorrected. This is possibly the case as second hand demand for EV's is much better than ICE cars, they sell much quicker basically. All cars are depreciating like a stone as interest rates are exceptionally high, so nobody wants to take out big loans on high rates, rightly so. This will probably lead to a lack of supply though (some manufacturers are already throttling supply), which will then mean there's less second hand cars for sale, and couple that with interest rates probably coming down, then some may not depreciate further by much, for a few years.
 
Buying any new ev or ice car is a mugs game imo, depreciation the second you drive either away. New cards are nice but imo are for people on leases or that have too much money laid around, or that won't sell it for a long time so don't actually care about depreciation. Everyone else would just buy a year or two old after that depreciation hit.
It's certainly not the cheapest way to do it, but was the only real choice many had with EV's initially when there wasn't many models out in each bracket. Can't really say that for ICE, as there's been hundreds of models for decades. It's very different for EV now of course, there's loads of options in almost every car type, even second hand.

I had basically 0% depreciation and 0% finance on my first EV, for a year and I'm about 25% down on the new one in two years, so over 3 years I'm down ~8% on average, which isn't that bad, and some cars a year or two old would depreciate at that rate or more, but it all depends on supply and demand.

I still wouldn't be put off with a new car (new EV) if they had something new I wanted, and it had fast charging/ better efficiency/ performance / tech/ self driving or whatever etc. There still isn't much in the two seater or small lighter 4 seater sports car type, which is the only thing I would potentially change to. I might end up getting the new Cayman EV when it comes out, but waiting on specs, but don't think there's much about like that which isn't silly money.

The thing what would put me off is finance, first new EV was 0% and second new ev was 3% I think, what's it now 6% on new and 10%+ on second hand? Those percentages make a massive difference on big numbers. In some cases if you can get 0% on new, then this will beat or match 10% on 2 year old, if you sum up depreciation and finance charges. There's a sweet spot/ value for everyone I suppose, and it's very much in different places.

They had to get loads of EV's sold quickly, to fuel that second hand car market, and they basically did that with business ownership/ no BIK, which saved a killing, even on new cars. Loads of company car owners/ users expect newer cars, so opening the door for this with reduced tax really kicked the market on.

I suppose it's down to budgets too mind, one persons budget to use 10% of wages for motoring or whatever will be very different to another, and you need people buying new cars or there wouldn't be any year or two year cars old for sale.

I expect most who buy new are keeping for 3-5 years, but there will be a few who swap every year if they get a decent trade in value (dealers like these), best way to do it is to be fluid with it, but you need the cash to cover the variance so people should never stretch themselves.
 
What year was that, I'm thinking it was around 2-3 years ago?

There did seem a period where the number of EV's on the road was rapidly increasing, outpacing faster chargers chargers, but they were also only putting in 50kW and 100kW chargers at most and even that seemed slow. Covid didn't help construction of them mind, but more to do with approvals rather than the physical work. To be honest I think they were just aiming charge speeds at the manufacturers (most cars were sub 100kW charging speed), but once the Taycan and Polestar were touching 300kW they knew they had to up that speed, and think Tesla were up to 250kW pretty quickly on their own cars and network.

I think there was only one place in the country which had 350kW chargers 2-3 years ago? There are loads now, especially along the main routes, where most needed, which is great. I think Gridserve are only half way through their current plans, but loads of others are making their own networks too. Just need the prices of charging at them to come down a bit, but they will once the initial investment has been paid off and competition drives prices down. I don't mind the high prices though, as like many I very rarely use the public chargers, but they will need to come down for others who can't home charge or spend their life on the road.

Faster chargers really are the key.

This is the current map of 350kW locations, was surprised how many there already are. There are some holes there though which need plugging, along the motorways, but it's certainly coming, and seems to have more than kept up for now.

View attachment 75024
Got my first EV December 2020. It seemed to start off ok and then went rapidly downhill. Most definitely easier charging now than even back in 2020 due to the rise in chargers. There are still not enough though!
 
Got my first EV December 2020. It seemed to start off ok and then went rapidly downhill. Most definitely easier charging now than even back in 2020 due to the rise in chargers. There are still not enough though!
Yeah about the same time as me then, think I was around September 20, there was next to no EV's then, other than Tesla's which didn't even use the same chargers, so charging was easy to access but limited in destinations, and the chargers were fairly slow. Think my car charged at 125kW but never found a charger which ever came near maxing that, so 75kW was average, for the ones I hit. Was still filling up from 20% in about 30 minutes or so, which was no longer than I was stopping for anyway, so wasn't fussed.

There are probably more chargers per car now, but maybe less superchargers per car? Would be interesting to know the stats.

Everywhere I go now most of the route is covered by the 350kW, and there's often a lot of them, so I would probably just aim for ones which had a few free and look ahead. I'd pay a premium for them but not fussed, as don't do that journey often.

It's better to wait 10 minutes at a 350kW, than drive straight into a 100kW though, that's for sure, if you're "filling up", if the car can charge quickly of course.
 
What a palaver.
Take my hat off to good people putting up with that.
I imagine many of you feel somewhat let down that charging options havn't kept pace with EV Car demand.
Yet another Tory LIE.
 
Where are the goverment going to get the tax from people who used to to buy petrol and diesel the price of which is mostly tax.
ev's have to be taxed heavily or the goverment will lose a revenue stream which they will not let happen.
 
Where are the goverment going to get the tax from people who used to to buy petrol and diesel the price of which is mostly tax.
ev's have to be taxed heavily or the goverment will lose a revenue stream which they will not let happen.
Road tax will have to change at some point. I think we could end up with some sort of mileage tax as you can’t easily tax electricity bills without making non drivers pay and causing uproar. It’s either that or road tolls all over the place which nobody wants.
 
Where are the goverment going to get the tax from people who used to to buy petrol and diesel the price of which is mostly tax.
ev's have to be taxed heavily or the goverment will lose a revenue stream which they will not let happen.
You pay a premium for EVs. Road tax is about £190pm. A £40k car will have £8k of VAT. A lot of the early EV sales have been high value ones at double that so they aren't getting nothing. They are currently being incentivised though so the idea is that the older cars that we no longer want on our roads are taxed heavier via fuel duty. Once they have been phased out and EVs are the norm then the tax rates for them will be increased (and they already are because the price of a car as well as the emissions is now included in the tax calculation).
 
What a palaver.
Take my hat off to good people putting up with that.
I imagine many of you feel somewhat let down that charging options havn't kept pace with EV Car demand.
Yet another Tory LIE.
No. And it isn’t a palaver at all. Have you not actually read the responses from EV owners?
 
You pay a premium for EVs. Road tax is about £190pm. A £40k car will have £8k of VAT. A lot of the early EV sales have been high value ones at double that so they aren't getting nothing. They are currently being incentivised though so the idea is that the older cars that we no longer want on our roads are taxed heavier via fuel duty. Once they have been phased out and EVs are the norm then the tax rates for them will be increased (and they already are because the price of a car as well as the emissions is now included in the tax calculation).
This is not the point ice cars have vat on them It could be you will be taxed on how many miles you drive with new cars being reported when servicing arises and older cars when the mot is due.
You will pay in the future ,once they have most of us onboard then they will hit us with a new form of taxation to replace fuel duty.
 
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