Electric cars Depreciation

Again it seems everyone who wants to compassion about EV has to do 200 miles plus every journey. Seems we have a website of driving extremists! This website must have all of the 1% 🤣
Its part of the joys of living in the North East of England, and following the Boro.
As kids we would go to Halifax every week to see our Nana.
Sheffield which is historically in the same county is a 200 mile round trip and even google maps is stating it as under 2 hours.
Living in Dorset you usually cant do the mileage in the same time especially if your going west
I sometimes have to go to Bristol its just over 60 miles and you will struggle to do it in the same 2 hours.
I would imagine living in or near London is worse.
 
You are both extrapolating your own experience as universal. And display a rather amusing inability to understand statistics.

Carry on.
 
"This is my lived experience!"....

"No it isn't..."

Love this site sometimes.

It can't be raining where you are because it isn't here!
 
Haha. You were mental. They aren't extreme examples. They are regular real world examples. They aren't hypothetical or theoretical. 100 miles isn't far. People regularly travel 100 miles. Most people don't have an EV charger for you to use at their house and destination chargers don't exist. Any that do are usually 1 or 2 per 1000 cars so might as well be 0.

I also think you completely fail to comprehend statistics. 1% of journeys might be affected but 100% of people do those journeys so it affects 100% of drivers. What is so difficult to get your head around? I've just looked at my calendar for the last year and I did at least 12 long distance (beyond the range of the car) trips so basically once a month. I don't think something that occurs monthly would be described as extreme.

I assume Norway has far better charging infrastructure than we do. I, and others, aren't pointing out the negatives of the cars themselves but the negatives of the charging infrastructure and the irritations of owning an EV.

You sound like a smarmy car salesman with something to hide.
I believe Norway has a 25% tax on petrol vehicles. EV's that cost under about 36k are exempt, else you pay 25% in the excess only. That's a hell of an incentive to go electric really
 
This is what I'm talking about, you're right and everyone else is wrong. With regards to your Taycan, if you wanted to move it on - what would you actually do? The goalposts have moved from a couple of years ago. The calculations you were making a couple of years ago proved not to be viable. Now you're switching and saying different things.

Below is a video that has been posted before about someone in the industry switching to diesel from EV. But no doubt you'll choose to ignore their opinion/circumstances and say they're wrong 😆

I am right, about my circumstances, probably more right than anyone else could be, and you seem to be claiming you know more about me and EV's, without much experience of either, good luck with that :LOL: If I wanted to move it on I'd sell it private, just like a Panamera owner, range rover sport owner, probably would now, or weigh it in to the dealer against a newer model. Most Range rover sports have lost 40-50% in two years.

The calcs two years ago were based on......two years ago, loads of cars were selling over list then, both ICE and EV (EV's more over list), now next to none are. Sure that means my depreciation values are more, but so are other comparable ICE cars. But, the monthly payment has not changed, company car tax rates are still next to nothing, fuel for EV's got much cheaper (currently pay about 1-2p per mile), fuel for ice much more expensive, 20mpg is like 30p per mile.

Lets go through the vid, in order:

First of all, he practically bought the most stolen, hard/ costly to insure car that is on the road (the gen before), people and insurers are going to be wary about that, and good luck with the depreciation on that, depreciation on all range rovers is horrendous.
Compared diesel a car at 6% APR (with a 5k discount) with a higher spec one at 10% APR :LOL: There's a reason why they're discounting and offering a better rate on the diesel.
The petrol hybrid was expected to pay off 35k of depreciation, same as the diesel, based on LR's own numbers.
Bought that new car as a private buyer (so he's already paid 30-40% tax on that probably), he must be mental, but can understand why he wouldn't put that through his company, as the tax will be ludicrous that way too.
Private buyers are not buying cars as the rates are dogshit, but commercial/ lease/ car hire companies still buying cars and EV's are the best choice (for most, with home/ work charging) as there's massive tax savings and they still need to buy cars to maintain the fleet with newer cars, which is what their drivers want.
This also means loads of second hand decent EV's are hitting the market now, that's a good thing, it brings back price parity and increases the EV share on the road. EV's sell much quicker second hand than the ICE cars do.
Toyota are pretty much the only car company not going balls deep on EV's, maybe they're right and all the others are wrong, but I don't think so. They make good hybrids though, so will still sell loads of them. Good luck with the hydrogen cars though, that's not going to happen in the UK, that's for sure.
He's right about efficiency, but the point is moot compared to ICE, which are far less efficient. There are some cars with terrible mp/kW though, usually first gen stuff, but I get about 2.5-3, which is unreal for the performance. Plenty of cars with double that efficiency now, and still with great performance, like Tesla who have the most experience I suppose, the rest will catch up though.
Loads of the early EV cars were aimed at top of the range/ higher performance, as they were expecting businesses to be buyers first, so that's what they largely targeted, but now we're seeing all that tech filter down so basic EV's become cheaper, with less performance, more efficiency etc.

The guy has got about 20 cars, his circumstances are a lot different to most, not many personal buyers will be spending 85k to tow a caravan.

That bloke reminds me of that John Campbell, the covid commentator who switched sides to anti-vax when he realised he got more clicks from it.
 
Haha. You were mental. They aren't extreme examples. They are regular real world examples. They aren't hypothetical or theoretical. 100 miles isn't far. People regularly travel 100 miles. Most people don't have an EV charger for you to use at their house and destination chargers don't exist. Any that do are usually 1 or 2 per 1000 cars so might as well be 0.

I also think you completely fail to comprehend statistics. 1% of journeys might be affected but 100% of people do those journeys so it affects 100% of drivers. What is so difficult to get your head around? I've just looked at my calendar for the last year and I did at least 12 long distance (beyond the range of the car) trips so basically once a month. I don't think something that occurs monthly would be described as extreme.

I assume Norway has far better charging infrastructure than we do. I, and others, aren't pointing out the negatives of the cars themselves but the negatives of the charging infrastructure and the irritations of owning an EV.

You sound like a smarmy car salesman with something to hide.
of COURSE they are extreme examples. Hate to repeat myself but 99% of all uk journeys is under 100 miles. So you're tlaking about less then 1% of all journeys; Sounds extreme to me
 
It's funny when the ICE only lot use Toyota as an example to bash EV's, which is a bit odd when pretty much every one of their best selling cars they make, plugs in, has a battery, and an electric motor and they've been doing that longer than most :LOL: Toyota helped open the door for EV's more than most did.

Toyota didn't really bother with BEV's as they messed up on the ones they did make, and ended up years behind the other manufacturers so couldn't compete on them. But, they still make really good hybrids, and were before most others on those, so they don't really have much to worry about for now. It probably makes sense for them to have waited it out for a few years and not spend the R&D money, and just wait for better tech and come into the EV market more actively later.

They seem to be changing tact now mind, as the first car on their new vehicles page is a BEV and they're offering 0% on that too.

They've no doubt realised that they were going to have some problems in the EU market come 2035 though, if they don't change tact, when hydrids are banned at the same time as petrol etc. They will still be able to sell hybrids elsewhere though.
Clearly we're not going to hydrogen anytime soon, as it's just going to be too expensive and never have the infrastructure for decades at least, it just can't compete with plug sockets which are everywhere and far cheaper.
 
of COURSE they are extreme examples. Hate to repeat myself but 99% of all uk journeys is under 100 miles. So you're tlaking about less then 1% of all journeys; Sounds extreme to me
And 95% of journeys are short enough to be done via foot or bike and yet the "extreme" examples of needing to go to the shops or get somewhere quicker than you can buy foot means cars are essential for the majority of people.

Why do you even own a car? Seems a bit extreme to not just use trains, buses or walk.

Extreme would be 1000+ miles that someone does once a year or two. Something that happens once a month is not even remotely extreme.

I do 12k miles a year and half of that is on those 12 long trips so while it is a small percent of my journeys it is 50% of my driving. This is the problem with statistics. They can be misused by people that aren't qualified to interpret them in the way you have done.
 
And 95% of journeys are short enough to be done via foot or bike and yet the "extreme" examples of needing to go to the shops or get somewhere quicker than you can buy foot means cars are essential for the majority of people.

Why do you even own a car? Seems a bit extreme to not just use trains, buses or walk.

Extreme would be 1000+ miles that someone does once a year or two. Something that happens once a month is not even remotely extreme.

I do 12k miles a year and half of that is on those 12 long trips so while it is a small percent of my journeys it is 50% of my driving. This is the problem with statistics. They can be misused by people that aren't qualified to interpret them in the way you have done.
I do about 10k miles a year and the same number of long trips. But I know how to use my EV and so I don’t whine about it. Weirdly I agree with you about infrastructure, despite the fact you’ve ignored this bit. I just disagree that a car journey being 280 miles long is anywhere near the norm, because it clearly isn’t.
 
I always try and seek put an AC charger near were I am staying our visiting. The bonus of refueling whilst you do whatever you do anyway is perfect. And in some places you essentially don't have to pay for parking becasue you can use your refueling for 7 hours. That's only if I'm doing a 300 mile+ round trip of course. Otherwise I just don't charge at all.
Refuelling!!
 
of COURSE they are extreme examples. Hate to repeat myself but 99% of all uk journeys is under 100 miles. So you're tlaking about less then 1% of all journeys; Sounds extreme to me
Those long journeys are rare but when they’re necessary it can be a huge inconvenience to have to charge up, especially if you have to queue first. Yes you probably gain that back by not visiting the local petrol station every week or two but people don’t mind that when it’s a few minutes here and there as it doesn’t interrupt their plans. You can argue all you want about individual circumstances and fossil fuel industry propaganda but it’s not changing anyone’s mind so what’s the point? The technology is improving all the time and will make EV’s acceptable to the doubters at some point anyway.
 
I watch Harry's channel (he also has a farming one) and he is in a unique position; unless you know any other former performance car magazine publishers who live just outside of Burford and run a farm.

If you're using him as the example to try and settle an argument then you're floundering.
 
Those long journeys are rare but when they’re necessary it can be a huge inconvenience to have to charge up, especially if you have to queue first. Yes you probably gain that back by not visiting the local petrol station every week or two but people don’t mind that when it’s a few minutes here and there as it doesn’t interrupt their plans. You can argue all you want about individual circumstances and fossil fuel industry propaganda but it’s not changing anyone’s mind so what’s the point? The technology is improving all the time and will make EV’s acceptable to the doubters at some point anyway.
It’s not a huge inconvenience no. It’s an inconvenience if you have to maximise your time but if you’re stopping for a wee anyway then you’re only adding about ten mins on. And the rarity of the journeys is the key: losing a few mins when you do a long journey can be offset by the massive savings and fuel, tax, servicing etc when using the car day to day. Each to their own I guess. To some people saving say 20 minutes a year is worth spending the extra £1000s on to maintain an ICE
 
It's funny when the ICE only lot use Toyota as an example to bash EV's, which is a bit odd when pretty much every one of their best selling cars they make, plugs in, has a battery, and an electric motor and they've been doing that longer than most :LOL: Toyota helped open the door for EV's more than most did.

Toyota didn't really bother with BEV's as they messed up on the ones they did make, and ended up years behind the other manufacturers so couldn't compete on them. But, they still make really good hybrids, and were before most others on those, so they don't really have much to worry about for now. It probably makes sense for them to have waited it out for a few years and not spend the R&D money, and just wait for better tech and come into the EV market more actively later.

They seem to be changing tact now mind, as the first car on their new vehicles page is a BEV and they're offering 0% on that too.

They've no doubt realised that they were going to have some problems in the EU market come 2035 though, if they don't change tact, when hydrids are banned at the same time as petrol etc. They will still be able to sell hybrids elsewhere though.
Clearly we're not going to hydrogen anytime soon, as it's just going to be too expensive and never have the infrastructure for decades at least, it just can't compete with plug sockets which are everywhere and far cheaper.
You do talk some absolute nonsense Andy. Toyota was used as an example of a manufacturer making huge investment and giant strides with hydrogen.
 
I do about 8-12k miles per year and haven't used a public charger in at least a year I think, other than to try out a 350kW charger so see how it worked out in the real world. Only tested it for a few minutes mind, but it was charging at about 12 miles per minute, we need those at every services but it will get there.

Done loads of 200 mile round trips in that time but don't need to charge on those, like most modern EV's wouldn't.

Done a few weekends where I've driven ~250 miles out and ~250 back, but just plugged in a 3 pin when I got there.

Done a few 600 mile round trips over a year ago, for weekends aways, but these would be extreme for me, and would normally get the train for such journeys, but whether I drove the ICE, Hybrid or EV the journey time would be the same anyway.

Having an EV doesn't even put me out for a minute of the year, and I save on not having to go and "fill up".

Our lass does about 10-12k miles per year and I don't think she's ever driven more than 100 miles. 90% of her miles are fulfilled by the 30 mile EV range of a hybrid. I bet there are a lot more drivers doing things like this, spending more time doing this, than those driving 500 mle round trips in the same day, or even over a weekend. 1000 miles over a weekend would be exceptionally rare I think, not even worth considering.

It's horses for courses, but I'm quite convinced that a lot of people don't quite understand the course they would be on, when it comes to EV's, even some EV owners. So this quite often when the thing most people talk about is range, when if people are doing loads of miles they should probably think more about charging speed. Loads of people just pull up at any old charger and then whine when they're sat there for an hour or two, when they could have just picked a much faster charger along the route, if they actually understood the maths of it.

What I would chose would be factoring for what I do 90% of my time driving. This wouldn't necessarily be 90% of miles, as that's not 90% of the time etc. If I drive 200 miles on a longer trip in month it's probably only taking me 3 hours, but the other 800 miles is probably at a third of the speed, so more like 36 hours.1/5th of the miles isn't even 10% of the time etc.
 
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