EFL Announcement

[HolgateCorner]

1. It doesn't keep everything honest.

2. They have for many.

I think football has to move with the times and the technology.

I remember taking my non Boro girlfriend to the Notts County away end 35 years ago and she struggled to find a ladies toilet and when she did it was a thunder box. It brought it home to me just how archaic football had become.

Don’t you think it’s a bit old hat not to use the VAR to review the key decisions?

 

[BoroMart]

I think football has to move with the times and the technology.

I remember taking my non Boro girlfriend to the Notts County away end 35 years ago and she struggled to find a ladies toilet and when she did it was a thunder box. It brought it home to me just how archaic football had become.

Don’t you think it’s a bit old hat not to use the VAR to review the key decisions?

and rugby, cricket, tennis, US football all use versions of VAR, no complaints, why are football fans so much more fearful of change?!

 

[Nano]

The idea of coaches getting a certain amount of challenges is a really dumb idea. Either a decision is wrong and it should be corrected or it isn't. It would just be abused so we get reviews that are frivolous to waste time and there will also be certain situations where decisions that are clearly wrong are allowed to stand because a team has run out of challenges. There would be tactics around how/when to play challenges etc and it would be horrible.

VAR, even in its current format, would be fine if the people running it were better at their job. They just need more training. VAR will also get better as automation does some of the job. Offside could be instantaneous as the technology is there already.

Nonsense. As you jump up, you look across at the lino to see if he's raised his flag. None of the tedium of waiting for a VAR check. I have serious doubts of whether I'd renew my season ticket if VAR was going to be in use. It ruins watching on TV. Even worse live.

VAR doesn't prevent you celebrating though. You can still celebrate. There's just a chance that it might be overturned. VAR also allows more opportunity to celebrate. Goals which are marginal offside calls for example are allowed to run and aren't incorrectly ruled out.

Nobody is arguing that VAR is perfect. They are arguing that VAR is better at getting the correct outcome which leads to games being won/lost because of teams deserving to rather than bad officiating. I don't mind when I leave the stadium and we have lost because we weren't good enough but I'm not happy when we have lost because a referee has got decisions completely wrong. There is a simple solution for the bad officiating and not doing something to fix it seems stupid.

 

[newusername]

The idea of coaches getting a certain amount of challenges is a really dumb idea. Either a decision is wrong and it should be corrected or it isn't.

VAR as it is implemented in the EPL is to correct things the official has missed, this means the whole game is being replayed in the booth & then they call play back a few minutes later with everyone in the ground nonplussed and no right of appeal.

Again going back to the NFL the game just flows along and when a Coach sees the official has missed something they throw a challenge flag. It would be less stop start than it is now.

 

[B_G]

and there will also be certain situations where decisions that are clearly wrong are allowed to stand because a team has run out of challenges. There would be tactics around how/when to play challenges etc and it would be horrible.

If a manager runs out of 3 challenges then that's their problem. It means they've been using challenges to try and overturn decisions that aren't clear and obvious. That's their problem. Should stop manager's running around like d1ckheads on the sideline screaming at refs and 4th officials as well.

If they aren't happy, then use a challenge. Otherwise shut up and get back in your box.

 

[Nano]

If a manager runs out of 3 challenges then that's their problem. It means they've been using challenges to try and overturn decisions that aren't clear and obvious. That's their problem. Should stop manager's running around like d1ckheads on the sideline screaming at refs and 4th officials as well.

If they aren't happy, then use a challenge. Otherwise shut up and get back in your box.

But some things are marginal and subjective. A coach might lose their challenge because they were wrong by millimetres or because the referee had a different opinion. How does the coach know when to use it? they have a terrible view of the action. With that system you would also have to increase the threshold from clear and obvious error to something else. Your solution punishes frivolous appeals and just adds another element to the system that can be "gamed".

VAR as it is implemented in the EPL is to correct things the official has missed, this means the whole game is being replayed in the booth & then they call play back a few minutes later with everyone in the ground nonplussed and no right of appeal.

Again going back to the NFL the game just flows along and when a Coach sees the official has missed something they throw a challenge flag. It would be less stop start than it is now.

The NFL reviews every scoring play and every play within the final 2 mins of each half. The coaches flag is not for reviewing major plays like scoring plays but for reviewing things like spot of the ball or whether something was a catch or not. Also, the NFL does anything but flow. It is extremely stop start.

 

[Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret]

I think football has to move with the times and the technology.

I remember taking my non Boro girlfriend to the Notts County away end 35 years ago and she struggled to find a ladies toilet and when she did it was a thunder box. It brought it home to me just how archaic football had become.

Don’t you think it’s a bit old hat not to use the VAR to review the key decisions?

Outstanding. The state of the ladies toilets at a match 35 years ago used to justify the use of VAR. That's some thinking there. Outstanding.

 

[El Guapo]

and rugby, cricket, tennis, US football all use versions of VAR, no complaints, why are football fans so much more fearful of change?!

Cricket, tennis and nfl use VAR during breaks in play that football doesn’t have and almost exclusively on ‘line’ (non-subjective) calls. Rugby uses VAR very differently to football and does usually only in breaks in play ie try, ref has already awarded a penalty anyway etc and it is also for clear and obvious errors and used by onfield ref where they ask if clear and obvious reason to change original decision. Also used to review serious foul play but again only usually during a stoppage / a break in play and usually after the onfield ref has already made a call to award a penalty so it used to enhance the onfield ref ability to reach correct call. It is very rare for VAR to step in first and it is not used for everything. The main thing though is the breaks in play in all these games which footy doesn’t have. This is why VAR doesn’t work that well in footy. Plus the different governing bodies have different interpretations in footy eg ball deflecting up off own leg onto hand is a pen in Europe but not in UK. That’s farcical.

For me, and this is just my opinion, goal line technology is as far as it should’ve gone and no further.

and also, I’d say VAR has only come into the game as a result of the money in the game and the veiled threat of legal action by any club at risk of losing said monies to a ‘wrong’ decision.

 

[B_G]

But some things are marginal and subjective. A coach might lose their challenge because they were wrong by millimetres or because the referee had a different opinion. How does the coach know when to use it? they have a terrible view of the action. With that system you would also have to increase the threshold from clear and obvious error to something else. Your solution punishes frivolous appeals and just adds another element to the system that can be "gamed".

If it's millimeters on an offside or a ref has had a different opinion then it's not clear and obvious. Just live with it and get on with it. The players on the field generally have a good idea if a player is offside or whether they have handballed or committed a foul.

If you challenge decisions 3 times and get it wrong 3 times then you deserve to play the rest of the game with no help from VAR.

Exactly the same as in cricket when they use their reviews or NFL when they waste their challenges.

I always thought that the intention of VAR was to get rid of the howlers. Not analyse every decision in minute detail.

 

[Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret]

and rugby, cricket, tennis, US football all use versions of VAR, no complaints, why are football fans so much more fearful of change?!

Fearful of change. Honestly the arguments people make. We've seen it. We think it's ****. Why would we want to change to it. We are fearful of things that we love being turned *****.

Why do people continually post such **** arguments. You are intelligent enough to know that this is a moronic argument. I can only reason it's to try to insult people.

 

[El Guapo]

Fearful of change. Honestly the arguments people make. We've seen it. We think it's ****. Why would we want to change to it. We are fearful of things that we love being turned *****.

Bang on.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

I think football has to move with the times and the technology.

I remember taking my non Boro girlfriend to the Notts County away end 35 years ago and she struggled to find a ladies toilet and when she did it was a thunder box. It brought it home to me just how archaic football had become.

Don’t you think it’s a bit old hat not to use the VAR to review the key decisions?

You don't need all seater stadia in modern stadia. Toilets and other facilities could have been improved, that they weren't is all about attitudes at the tops of clubs. There are excellent facilities at grounds where standing is very much the norm.

The vast majority of games don't use VAR. Are you saying that key decisions are wrong at these matches. I watch a lot of football, most cheating takes place during games covered by VAR, not at the games without it. Players are constantly fouled in the penalty box and nothing is done about it, so VAR isn't doing what it should do.

It's not about being 'old hat'. It's about a level playing field across football, not using a system for one small part of the sport and not using it on the vast majority.

All you're doing in supporting the current system is acknowledging that football is only about the top flight. That football across the rest of the nation is irrelevant. Only money in football matters.

 

[Nano]

Fearful of change. Honestly the arguments people make. We've seen it. We think it's ****. Why would we want to change to it. We are fearful of things that we love being turned *****.

Why do people continually post such **** arguments. You are intelligent enough to know that this is a moronic argument. I can only reason it's to try to insult people.

If you think football without VAR is perfect and you don't want it to change then that is a valid position to hold. However, the other half of people disagree and think that poor refereeing is ruining the game and they want to improve it.

The way I see it is that the arguments against change are pretty weak. There is huge scope for improvement. VAR does some of that and could do a lot better. There is also a huge number of other things that we are not doing which could be done to improve things further.

Surely you can understand that your ideal version of the game isn't the same as everyone else's?

 

[El Guapo]

If you think football without VAR is perfect and you don't want it to change then that is a valid position to hold. However, the other half of people disagree and think that poor refereeing is ruining the game and they want to improve it.

The way I see it is that the arguments against change are pretty weak. There is huge scope for improvement. VAR does some of that and could do a lot better. There is also a huge number of other things that we are not doing which could be done to improve things further.

Surely you can understand that your ideal version of the game isn't the same as everyo ne else's?

And vice-versa to that last sentence

 

[BoroMart]

VAR doesn't prevent you celebrating though. You can still celebrate. There's just a chance that it might be overturned.

VAR generates a whole new set of celebrations. The schadenfraude moment where you get to absolutely howl with laughter at a set of fans losing their rag because a goal got ruled out. “Can’t celebrate isn’t a available excuse for not liking var”

 

[BoroMart]

Fearful of change. Honestly the arguments people make. We've seen it. We think it's ****. Why would we want to change to it. We are fearful of things that we love being turned *****.

Why do people continually post such **** arguments. You are intelligent enough to know that this is a moronic argument. I can only reason it's to try to insult people.

So tennis and rugby fans didn’t have the same fears?

We’ve seen an immature implementation of VAR with no automation. There is no reason why offside and penalty line decisions can’t be automated, giving a near instant and accurate decision

 

[newusername]

The NFL reviews every scoring play and every play within the final 2 mins of each half.

Yep, I said that.

The coaches flag is not for reviewing major plays like scoring plays but for reviewing things like spot of the ball or whether something was a catch or not. Also, the NFL does anything but flow. It is extremely stop start.

My understanding is that coaches can challenge scoring plays. Although they are reviewed, the coach can draw the attention to the officials of something they think has been missed by the onfield & booth teams but I agree they can't challenge subjective calls like holding. The NFL understands that two people looking at it could come up with two different responses and so supports the onfield officials to make the right call.

 

[BoroMart]

Surely you can understand that your ideal version of the game isn't the same as everyone else's?

It isn’t even embedded in reality.

The biggest problems with var is they introduced too much too quickly and with too high an expectation, creating a perception gap.

It should have just been applied to offside at first for 3 years. Then everyone would accept it was very good.

Then the call would have been to introduce it to validate if a pen was in or out the box.

Then eventually, and reluctantly onto more interpretation decisions.

If they’d done it this way, there would far less resistance

 

[Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret]

So tennis and rugby fans didn’t have the same fears?

We’ve seen an immature implementation of VAR with no automation. There is no reason why offside and penalty line decisions can’t be automated, giving a near instant and accurate decision

We don't hold fears of the unknown. We have knowledge. Changing the goal has fundamentally altered the game for us. To an extent that I do t want to be promoted.

 

[B_G]

It should have just been applied to offside at first for 3 years. Then everyone would accept it was very good.

I'm not sure they would. I hate that we now argue whether one player's toe nail is closer to the goal than another.

Other people will argue that they hate losing the feeling of celebrating a goal while they wait for a VAR review.

It would still have opposition