Diane Abbott

It’s ok I’ll just send out an apology and stay it’s all been a bit if a mix up as that was my first draft. God help us - how what she said got in any draft is nonsense.

Trying to excuse herself like this is just confirming what we already know about her intellect!
 
Granville Bennett said:
And many Jews say that Judaism is a race. My point was that it transcends religion alone. Think about Jewish atheists: Edwina Currie, Amy Winehouse, David Baddiel. Do you think the Gestapo would have left them alone in 1939?
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There are black and white Jews and Jews of different belief, denominations and different interpretation of the Torah. Judaism is not one "race". Judaism comprises many races: there are violent right-wing currents who preach of a racial hierachy within Judaism.

Judaism is a belief system with its own norms, more`s and culture like any religion. There are Jewish Supremacists as there are Christian Supremacists. Judaism is not hegemonic.

The Nazi trope of Jews as the "enemy" of Aryan [White Supremacy] is based on the preconceived notion that Jews control the world: economically, politically and culturally. That classic trope pervades "Western Culture".
Hitler identified the Bolshevik`s as the enemy of National Socialism [Capitalism] - because the Jews in Germany and Russia had been leaders in the fight against the tyranny of the old order. The likes of Rosa Luxemborg [a Jew] was a leader in the Communist movement in Germany and Leon Trotsky [a Jew] was a leader of the ten days that shook the world - the Russian Revolution. Jews had [and still do] have a proud history of fighting for the oppressed, not the oppressor. The Jewish Labour Bund worked with the Soviets in Belarus, Munic, Poland, Lithuiania and Russia.

Hitler was the head of virulant Anti - Communism [Pro Capitalism] following the Russian Revolution. He was the spearhead for the Capitalist Elite in Europe and particularly the USA - who were intent on preserving the status quo [Capitalism]. National Socialism epitomised anti-semitism by portraying Jews, not just as controlers of Wealth across the globe, but as perpetrators and active supporters of Soviet Communism. Nazism is the epitomy of white supremacism.

An example of progressive Judaism [closer to home and on our doorstep] was The "43 Group", comprised mainly of JES [Jewish Ex-Servicemen] who organised support and momentum to fight the strong Fascist currents, still prevalent in Great Britain [Particularly London] after the Second World War. They disrupted and attacked Fascists meetings, particularly those of Oswald Moseley`s "Union Movement". A similar Jewish - inspired movement emerged in the 1960`s against the likes of the Fascist, Colin Jordan.

Zionst Nationalism which believed in the settlement of Jews to Israel was enshrined in the Balfour Declaration and perpetuated in Palestine under British Rule, until the British Mandate was transferred by the United Nations creation of the Partition Plan [1948] to divide Palestine into two nations - one Jewish and the other Arabic. Zionism is a Nationalist ideology which was formalised by Theodor Herzl in 1896. It was based on the declared intent to provide a Nation State for Jews in the general area of Palestine, which at the time was ruled by the Otterman Empire. Zionism and Judaism are not the same. The history of Palestine / Israel is complex and not as linear as some narratives suggest.

The dialectic of weaponising "anti-semitism" contradicts those who purport to be semitic anti-racists. "Anti-Semitism" predates the Holocaust - it runs throughout the history of the Christian Church, which is inherently anti-semitic. The story in the Bible where Jesus cast out the Jewish Money-Lenders from the Temple is one tenant of the foundation of the racist anti-Jewish trope of Jews as inherently greedy and craven for wealth. William Shakespear - venerated as Britains greatest Author and Play-write, demonstrated his anti-semitism with the trope of Shylock [The Jew] as the evil money-lender in The Merchant of Venice.

We all have to tread carefully: things arent always as black and white as we might be lead to believe.
 
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Redka said:
It’s ok I’ll just send out an apology and stay it’s all been a bit if a mix up as that was my first draft. God help us - how what she said got in any draft is nonsense.
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How did that get in your published version? Is it just confirming what we already know about your intellect?

It's actually very easy to see how her first draft was a direct reaction to the original article. That's the whole point of drafting something. You scribble down ideas and realise some of them are a bit ****. You then reframe things to make sure you're saying what you intended to say, without leaving any room for ambiguity.

If she believes (as she appears to (and isn't alone)) that racism is a specific form of discrimination that only applies to certain people then her letter is just clumsy. I don't think anyone believes that Diane Abbott herself is racist (or antisemitic). She opened herself up to scrutiny by not explaining exactly what she meant, and given the plethora of other incidents involving leftist figures (Ken Livingstone and Nazi guards for instance), she should have known better than to send something out unchecked.
 
Scrote said:
How did that get in your published version? Is it just confirming what we already know about your intellect?

It's actually very easy to see how her first draft was a direct reaction to the original article. That's the whole point of drafting something. You scribble down ideas and realise some of them are a bit ****. You then reframe things to make sure you're saying what you intended to say, without leaving any room for ambiguity.

If she believes (as she appears to (and isn't alone)) that racism is a specific form of discrimination that only applies to certain people then her letter is just clumsy. I don't think anyone believes that Diane Abbott herself is racist (or antisemitic). She opened herself up to scrutiny by not explaining exactly what she meant, and given the plethora of other incidents involving leftist figures (Ken Livingstone and Nazi guards for instance), she should have known better than to send something out unchecked.
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But you don’t scribble down ideas that are bat **** crazy.
 
bumface said:
Pembroke and Redka on the same thread. Is that allowed? Isn't that like crossing the streams in Ghostbusters? Bad things will happen.
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And here’s me thinking you were done with me after your little flounce yesterday. You can’t keep away from me , admit it :)
 
Why would she even touch this subject with a barge poll? Misguided to say the least and an “apology” as pathetic as Raabs.

Another massive own goal by the momentum crew.
 
I can see what she was trying to say. She just did it in a rather clumsy way and that gave Starmer, who has booted loads of jewish people out of the party for being the 'wrong' kind of jews an excuse to continue with his purge of the left.

Starmer should suspend himself. He's a ****.
 
Jedi boro said:
National Socialism [Capitalism]!

National socialism is not captilism.
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National Socialism - protected Capitalism.
Albert Speer - Hitler`s Minister of Production during WWII, ensured that all the private industries were protected and supported by huge armaments contracts. The state did not nationalise the means of production. It ensured industry stayed in private hands. If you take the Arms of Krupp - you will see the big picture. All the major industrialists in Germany colluded with the Nazi regime in order to preserve their own interests. Faced with a crisis and political threat - capitalism strips away its pretence. German industry was rebuilt after the war - with the help and leadership of the same industrialists who worked with the Nazi regime. Many retained war profits [often in foreign bank accounts or gold bullion]. National Socialism was the means by which Capitalism remained in private hands and preserved.
 
r00fie1 said:
There are black and white Jews and Jews of different belief, denominations and different interpretation of the Torah. Judaism is not one "race". Judaism comprises many races: there are violent right-wing currents who preach of a racial hierachy within Judaism.

Judaism is a belief system with its own norms, more`s and culture like any religion. There are Jewish Supremacists as there are Christian Supremacists. Judaism is not hegemonic.

The Nazi trope of Jews as the "enemy" of Aryan [White Supremacy] is based on the preconceived notion that Jews control the world: economically, politically and culturally. That classic trope pervades "Western Culture".
Hitler identified the Bolshevik`s as the enemy of National Socialism [Capitalism] - because the Jews in Germany and Russia had been leaders in the fight against the tyranny of the old order. The likes of Rosa Luxemborg [a Jew] was a leader in the Communist movement in Germany and Leon Trotsky [a Jew] was a leader of the ten days that shook the world - the Russian Revolution. Jews had [and still do] have a proud history of fighting for the oppressed, not the oppressor. The Jewish Labour Bund worked with the Soviets in Belarus, Munic, Poland, Lithuiania and Russia.

Hitler was the head of virulant Anti - Communism [Pro Capitalism] following the Russian Revolution. He was the spearhead for the Capitalist Elite in Europe and particularly the USA - who were intent on preserving the status quo [Capitalism]. National Socialism epitomised anti-semitism by portraying Jews, not just as controlers of Wealth across the globe, but as perpetrators and active supporters of Soviet Communism. Nazism is the epitomy of white supremacism.

An example of progressive Judaism [closer to home and on our doorstep] was The "43 Group", comprised mainly of JES [Jewish Ex-Servicemen] who organised support and momentum to fight the strong Fascist currents, still prevalent in Great Britain [Particularly London] after the Second World War. They disrupted and attacked Fascists meetings, particularly those of Oswald Moseley`s "Union Movement". A similar Jewish - inspired movement emerged in the 1960`s against the likes of the Fascist, Colin Jordan.

Zionst Nationalism which believed in the settlement of Jews to Israel was enshrined in the Balfour Declaration and perpetuated in Palestine under British Rule, until the British Mandate was transferred by the United Nations creation of the Partition Plan [1948] to divide Palestine into two nations - one Jewish and the other Arabic. Zionism is a Nationalist ideology which was formalised by Theodor Herzl in 1896. It was based on the declared intent to provide a Nation State for Jews in the general area of Palestine, which at the time was ruled by the Otterman Empire. Zionism and Judaism are not the same. The history of Palestine / Israel is complex and not as linear as some narratives suggest.

The dialectic of weaponising "anti-semitism" contradicts those who purport to be semitic anti-racists. "Anti-Semitism" predates the Holocaust - it runs throughout the history of the Christian Church, which is inherently anti-semitic. The story in the Bible where Jesus cast out the Jewish Money-Lenders from the Temple is one tenant of the foundation of the racist anti-Jewish trope of Jews as inherently greedy and craven for wealth. William Shakespear - venerated as Britains greatest Author and Play-write, demonstrated his anti-semitism with the trope of Shylock [The Jew] as the evil money-lender in The Merchant of Venice.

We all have to tread carefully: things arent always as black and white as we might be lead to believe.
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OK, so it is an ethnicity rather than a race. My point remains.
 
r00fie1 said:
National Socialism - protected Capitalism.
Albert Speer - Hitler`s Minister of Production during WWII, ensured that all the private industries were protected and supported by huge armaments contracts. The state did not nationalise the means of production. It ensured industry stayed in private hands. If you take the Arms of Krupp - you will see the big picture. All the major industrialists in Germany colluded with the Nazi regime in order to preserve their own interests. Faced with a crisis and political threat - capitalism strips away its pretence. German industry was rebuilt after the war - with the help and leadership of the same industrialists who worked with the Nazi regime. Many retained war profits [often in foreign bank accounts or gold bullion]. National Socialism was the means by which Capitalism remained in private hands and preserved.
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Whatever the quote or your reasoning it’s not accurate.

National socialism is not capitalism. That is just wrong.
 
Jedi boro said:
National Socialism [Capitalism]!

National socialism is not captilism.
Click to expand...
A key tenant was absolute hatred of communism. capitalism is the other end of the economic ideology spectrum. As roofie said big contracts were given out to big companies Daimler-Benz and Hugo Boss are often cited for this. The Nazis embraced capitalism, but of course so did some of their political opponents.
 
BoroMart said:
A key tenant was absolute hatred of communism. capitalism is the other end of the economic ideology spectrum. As roofie said big contracts were given out to big companies Daimler-Benz and Hugo Boss are often cited for this. The Nazis embraced capitalism, but of course so did some of their political opponents.
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I’m not denying any of this but that’s still not capitalism.

The exact definition of capitalism is

“an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit.”

Nazism

Nazism is a form of fascism, with disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system. It incorporates a dictatorship, fervent antisemitism, anti-communism, scientific racism, white supremacy, social Darwinism and the use of eugenics into its creed.

National socialism is about power and control capitalism is purely about profit.
 
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