Defence Shocking Again

Jonny Ingbar said:
He did, but how well did he play. The lad looms so conformable and seemingly better every game.
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None of the back four played well today. RVDB included. They were up against it given the make shift nature of the side but that doesn’t take away from what actually happened.
 
We need a George Boateng. Somebody who can protect the defence if we are going to continue with our gung-ho approach. That player is Lewis O’Brien. If we can get him back for the second half of the season and play him in his proper position of defensive midfield then that will tighten up the defence. (y)
 
Glover_elbow said:
We cant give both crooks and rodgers free roles without defensive responsibility in the same team. The defence was abysmal principly because the midfield was completely overrun.
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Rogers needed to work harder yesterday and provided no real cover.
I thought Crooks was excellent again yesterday.
 
Humpty said:
None of the back four played well today. RVDB included. They were up against it given the make shift nature of the side but that doesn’t take away from what actually happened.
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Don't agree, I thought VDB had decent enough game, but the way we play means they are never going to get a lot of protection.

Compare this team to the Karanka, with two deeper lying midfielders, one of whom was a traditional defensive midfielder and a team that's primary focus was on keeping clean sheets.

In terms of the goals, both headers were far too easy and McNair and Dijksteel should have been stronger I think.
 
Jonny Ingbar said:
Don't agree, I thought VDB had decent enough game, but the way we play means they are never going to get a lot of protection.

Compare this team to the Karanka, with two deeper lying midfielders, one of whom was a traditional defensive midfielder and a team that's primary focus was on keeping clean sheets.

In terms of the goals, both headers were far too easy and McNair and Dijksteel should have been stronger I think.
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I entirely agree regarding the system. The defence will never get protection like it did at the other end of the spectrum like under Karanka.

However RVDB was turned inside out all day. That's not to mention the numerous times he was also caught trying to dribble out of defence. It's easy to coast through games like Preston but Leeds and Ipswich were always going to show more of what he's capable of (or not) at this stage of his development. I think he's had a lot of hype since he arrived because of his brother and the clubs that were reportedly interested in him. He's young and has a lot to learn but he looks promising. I wouldn't go any further than that right now.
 
Humpty said:
I entirely agree regarding the system. The defence will never get protection like it did at the other end of the spectrum like under Karanka.

However RVDB was turned inside out all day. That's not to mention the numerous times he was also caught trying to dribble out of defence. It's easy to coast through games like Preston but Leeds and Ipswich were always going to show more of what he's capable of (or not) at this stage of his development. I think he's had a lot of hype since he arrived because of his brother and the clubs that were reportedly interested in him. He's young and has a lot to learn but he looks promising. I wouldn't go any further than that right now.
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Think that's a bit unfair, he's looked pretty assured for me and if if he was a kid that had stepped up from our academy we'd be raving about him.

I accept he's a little raw, but I don't think your assessment of his performance is fair at all, but we all are different things I guess.
 
I think Carrick was a bit naive thinking we could go toe to toe with Leeds at their place. That is one thing that Carrick needs to improve on (his management of each game individually) because we just aren’t good enough defensively to be able to do that with what we have at our disposal. I think he got the tactics just right against Leicester where we were much tighter and kept a good solid shape with players behind the ball covering each other. Leeds just had to much space to exploit, particularly in that first half, and they capitalised fully on it. It’s all very laudable playing good football but need to mix it up sometimes and grind out a result. We have done that at times this season so we can do it - i just wish we’d tried to frustrate Leeds yesterday instead of trying to go toe to toe with them which was always likely to play into their hands.
 
Part of the reason for our horrendous start to the season was the complete lack of intensity from the midfield out of possession to protect the back four by pressing the ball to either win it high up, or prevent counters, runs/shots on our goal. I feel this element of the game if worse when Rodgers/Barlaser/Silvera are in the team, or Crooks is up top.

I'm not saying those players shouldn't play, they have admirable qualities in other areas, but it is an issue we have to address. How may free crosses, or free shots from 25 yards do we give away when playing away from home. Far too many.
 
sambaDTR said:
We need a George Boateng. Somebody who can protect the defence if we are going to continue with our gung-ho approach. That player is Lewis O’Brien. If we can get him back for the second half of the season and play him in his proper position of defensive midfield then that will tighten up the defence. (y)
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Barlaser is not the man to have in the midfield in a match like this. He's far too weak and ineffective out of possession. I've said it plenty of times. Barlaser a very nice tidy player in games where he's getting a bit of time and we are dominating the ball. Like the game against Preston. As soon as a team presses us and we are under the cosh, he's not good enough.
 
Jonny Ingbar said:
In terms of the goals, both headers were far too easy and McNair and Dijksteel should have been stronger I think.
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Agree Re DIjksteel. Ive said ever since he came into the team, for every game like Preston where he links well and is a threat all game, there is a game or a moment lurking where he will cost us goals and games.

Right back HAS to be a priority recruitment focus for me. Smith was/is a stop gap, RVDB is a cb long term and everyone else is a square peg in a round hole.
 
B_G said:
Barlaser is not the man to have in the midfield in a match like this. He's far too weak and ineffective out of possession. I've said it plenty of times. Barlaser a very nice tidy player in games where he's getting a bit of time and we are dominating the ball. Like the game against Preston. As soon as a team presses us and we are under the cosh, he's not good enough.
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I've said similar in other threads, though id stop short of saying not good enough, more his skill set isnt exactly suited. Was singing his praises against Preston, MOTM for me, but we need a little bit more steel in games of this nature.
 
Humpty said:
However RVDB was turned inside out all day. That's not to mention the numerous times he was also caught trying to dribble out of defence. It's easy to coast through games like Preston but Leeds and Ipswich were always going to show more of what he's capable of (or not) at this stage of his development. I think he's had a lot of hype since he arrived because of his brother and the clubs that were reportedly interested in him. He's young and has a lot to learn but he looks promising. I wouldn't go any further than that right now.
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Coasting through games like Preston? Yeah cos that was his only good game wasn't it.
Apart from when he was MOTM against Leicester, and his excellent games out of position against Southampton, Norwich and Birmingham off the top of my head.
Also your right we only think he's good because he has a famous brother, because we're all completely thick.🙄
 
He's only played one game in his natural position, so that's what we realistically should be judging him on. He's done well out of position at right back given his age but he hasn't pulled up any tree's. He wasn't MOTM against Leicester in my opinion. He was actually quite troubled by Mvadidi and needed Jones to double up and quell the threat. That's no great shame as most would need that help. I'm reserving judgement but the signs are positive.
 
For all that he looks class on the ball at times, Rogers needs to work on his pressing and tactical nous.

Several times he made a lunge for the ball when he was never going to win it, leaving him wrong side of his man allowing them to burst into space unchallenged in dangerous areas.

It was almost "ah I've tried to steal it and failed. Never mind, I've done my bit".

You defend as a team and Rogers caused us a few issues on that front. Jones, Crooks and even Lath as the striker, were all far more disciplined out of possession. It makes a difference.
 
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