Dairy and meat exports down 96% due to Brexit

Laughing

Well-known member
It is a skill all on its own applying logic and knowledge appropriately to a problem.

So when Leave cited regaining control of our fishing as a benefit of leaving the EU Remainers didn’t deny it, what they pointed out was that making a decision to benefit a very small sector of the economy is not a good decision if it is going to have a negative effect on the vast majority of sectors. This was an appropriate application of knowledge and a fairly straightforward understanding of maths. Leavers, for reasons known only to them (or maybe not), chose to ignore some basic maths back then.

Now we can see that it hasn’t even benefitted the one sector even Remainers thought would benefit.

The response now appears to be to cite some maths, but inappropriately.

The appropriate response for Leavers is surely to ask why Boris hasn’t followed through on delivering what they thought was going to be a slam dunk on what they turned into their flagship issue. This is important. If they can’t even deliver on their number one easiest to deliver benefit, what is the likelihood project Leave is going to deliver benefits overall?

If someone says vote with me and leave your stale marriage and I’ll deliver you fresh pussy day after day and so you do and when you open your eyes afterwards and find Boris is smearing his dripping stinky bellend all over you face, my reaction would be to feel embarrassed at my own gullibility and furious at Boris, but hundredroom’s reaction is to decide to like cheese.
Love the post Lefty, lots of detail and very accurate. However, the loss of Norwegian fishing waters didn't need to happen. Yes it is a result of leaving the EU, but it is just an example of tory ineptitude rather than as a direct result of brexit.,as are a lot of brexit consequences.
 

Lefty

Well-known member
Love the post Lefty, lots of detail and very accurate. However, the loss of Norwegian fishing waters didn't need to happen. Yes it is a result of leaving the EU, but it is just an example of tory ineptitude rather than as a direct result of brexit.,as are a lot of brexit consequences.

Is it Tory ineptitude?

Are there not several possible other reasons, why do you settle on this explanation?
 

Lefty

Well-known member
Love the post Lefty, lots of detail and very accurate. However, the loss of Norwegian fishing waters didn't need to happen. Yes it is a result of leaving the EU, but it is just an example of tory ineptitude rather than as a direct result of brexit.,as are a lot of brexit consequences.

Femi made a good point the other day.

The question Brexiteers need to ask themselves is:

Why WOULDN'T Boris Johnson negotiate a fishing deal that gave us full control of our waters and lets us sell fish easily.

He campaigned on it. It was in his interest to make that a red line and stick to it.

So why didn't he?

There are only a few possible answers, arent there?

Unable to due to being too incompetent is one, but is incompetence the most likely?

Deliberately choosing not to is another, but what other questions does that raise about such a choice?

Which must suggest there is another, better explanation, if you really think about it.
 

HolgateCorner

Well-known member
Femi made a good point the other day.

The question Brexiteers need to ask themselves is:

Why WOULDN'T Boris Johnson negotiate a fishing deal that gave us full control of our waters and lets us sell fish easily.

He campaigned on it. It was in his interest to make that a red line and stick to it.

So why didn't he?

There are only a few possible answers, arent there?

Unable to due to being too incompetent is one, but is incompetence the most likely?

Deliberately choosing not to is another, but what other questions does that raise about such a choice?

Which must suggest there is another, better explanation, if you really think about it.
What do you think is the reason?
 

Laughing

Well-known member
Is it Tory ineptitude?

Are there not several possible other reasons, why do you settle on this explanation?
Because Lefty, when the referendum was held, Cameron was the pm. Then there was may. Neither one would have gone for the hardest of brexit. Brexit, unfortunately pushed Johnson to the front of the pm queue. Now, knowing Johnsons history, have you seen him be anything other than inept?

There was lots of flavours of brexit, what we have is Johnsons oven ready deal. It's appalling and didn't need to be. It's ineptitude.
 

Lefty

Well-known member
What do you think is the reason?

I think it best to let people find their own way to the answer.

If I tell people my answer, half will agree because I’m pushing against an open door. The other half will reflexively push back. Far better people be allowed to reason for themselves to not necessarily the one and only conclusion but at least the most likely one.
 
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Lefty

Well-known member
Because Lefty, when the referendum was held, Cameron was the pm. Then there was may. Neither one would have gone for the hardest of brexit. Brexit, unfortunately pushed Johnson to the front of the pm queue. Now, knowing Johnsons history, have you seen him be anything other than inept?

There was lots of flavours of brexit, what we have is Johnsons oven ready deal. It's appalling and didn't need to be. It's ineptitude.

In your view, in June 2016, you thought Cameron would likely remain PM and would be the one negotiating our future relationships with the rest of the world? Honestly? Really?
 

Lefty

Well-known member
Because Lefty, when the referendum was held, Cameron was the pm. Then there was may. Neither one would have gone for the hardest of brexit. Brexit, unfortunately pushed Johnson to the front of the pm queue. Now, knowing Johnsons history, have you seen him be anything other than inept?

There was lots of flavours of brexit, what we have is Johnsons oven ready deal. It's appalling and didn't need to be. It's ineptitude.

I’m not sure I follow. Are we distinguishing between the root of the ineptitude?

ie is it Boris who is inept, the Tories, or the voters ?
 

HolgateCorner

Well-known member
I think it best to let people find their own way to the answer.

If I tell people the answer, half will agree because I’m pushing against an open door. The other half will reflexively push back. Far better people be allowed to reason for themselves to not necessarily the one and only conclusion but at least the most likely one.
I was only interested in what you thought was the reason, I’ve not really been following the fishing problem very closely so would like to be in on a few theories.
 

Lefty

Well-known member
I was only interested in what you thought was the reason, I’ve not really been following the fishing problem very closely so would like to be in on a few theories.

I think you are getting to the heart of the matter with your question, because what you are drilling down to is a question on specifics, details and reality versus.....not those things. That is why Johnson hasn’t delivered, not so much incompetence in negotiating.
 

HolgateCorner

Well-known member
I think you are getting to the heart of the matter with your question, because what you are drilling down to is a question on specifics, details and reality versus.....not those things. That is why Johnson hasn’t delivered, not so much incompetence in negotiating.
Yes probably, or because he has sacrificed it for something else which is where I assumed you were going.

Voting for him really was a hit and hope by the Brexiters.
 

Laughing

Well-known member
I’m not sure I follow. Are we distinguishing between the root of the ineptitude?

ie is it Boris who is inept, the Tories, or the voters ?
Difficult to distinguish I suppose but I always thought Cameron was capable but evil. May I don't know, Johnson is intept and psychopathic, a wonderful combination. You may even argue that Johnson is a bright as a button, albeit evil. To answer your previous question when I voted in 2016 it never crossed my mind we would ever have Johnson as pm. Yup I am also inept.
 

Lefty

Well-known member
Difficult to distinguish I suppose but I always thought Cameron was capable but evil. May I don't know, Johnson is intept and psychopathic, a wonderful combination. You may even argue that Johnson is a bright as a button, albeit evil. To answer your previous question when I voted in 2016 it never crossed my mind we would ever have Johnson as pm. Yup I am also inept.

To drill down on this.

Do you agree with Femi that Johnson campaigned to give us a deal that granted us control of our territorial waters AND allowed us to continue to sell our fish just as easily as before brexit?

Both in 2016 and after becoming PM, I mean.
 

Laughing

Well-known member
To drill down on this.

Do you agree with Femi that Johnson campaigned to give us a deal that granted us control of our territorial waters AND allowed us to continue to sell our fish just as easily as before brexit?

Both in 2016 and after becoming PM, I mean.
No. In hindsight, he campaigned for pm, I just looked away for a minute. That's on me. Once he became pm I think he is largely the puppet of the erg.
 
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