Dael Fry should be the first name on the team sheet.

Funky_Chicken

Well-known member
I think a lot boils don to the fact we’re getting out battled and outplayed in midfield - we saw it at times against West Brom and in yesterday’s game. It’s all well an good having two players on the flanks who can attack but it means the midfield have to cover and step up when we don’t have possession. We had Tav who could do that admirably last season, now it’s falling onto McGree and he just can’t do it very well. Think we need to shut up shop until the midfield is sorted or we’ll get more battering’s like yesterdays first half display
 

Alzi

Well-known member
Wilder mentioned that didn’t he?
He does seem to have players he’ll criticise in public and ones he won’t. Don’t think he ever had a bad word to say about Connolly despite him being worse than shi-te consistently.

Not sure if it’s good management or not to know who to call out but must **** off a few.
 

viv_andersons_nana

Well-known member
People forget with Fry - and I say this as someone who likes and rates him - is that he’s been a focal point of a team that has spent much of the past five years treading water in the second tier. The sort of goals we’ve conceded this season, it’s not like we’ve not conceded poor goals when Fry has played.

For me, and to my mind, and I’ve said this for years, our main weaknesses lie in the middle of the field. We have a lack of presence in there. Not since the Clayton and Leadbitter era, the axis of excellence, have we had what was required to compete and win on a weekly basis, across a whole season.

I think Howson is good but he’s ‘doing a job’ as a defensive shield. This team requires an orthodox defensive midfielder and Howson isn’t that. And now Tav has gone that area of the team is VERY exposed. Putting someone in the heart of the team would maybe allow Howson to move up, we could do with his bite and energy higher up. That ‘holding role’ has been vacant for years IMO. Much like the left-hand side of the central defence since Gibson left.

Put Dael in yesterday and we probably still lose 3-2. I think he played at Preston on the last day of last season? So he isn’t infallible. He’s good, obviously, but I don’t think he turns a shoeing into a victory. We’ve been pumped with him on the field before.

For me the balance of the team obviously isn’t right. It isn’t just the strikers. I’d love to think we’d add Choudhry to the side and just let him run the midfield. I think he’s got a real presence about him. I think for Fry, and Lenihan, whichever of them isn’t playing, the other one will be the one we’re demanding to be brought back in.

Once the team is right, which, let’s face it, is going to be another month, things will settle down. We’ve got to be patient. This bloke knows he’s doing.

Back him, enjoy it, support it. Give him time. He’ll make mistakes like anyone else but I think we should trust him. He’s got 20 years of experience and success behind him. That’s why he’s here.
 

Glover_elbow

Well-known member
Everything was under control until Lenihan decided to charge forward to try and press the midfielder. He left his man and once the ball was played past him it was a 4 vs 3 break. A chance on goal was inevitable at that point. He should have stayed with his man and conceded ground while McGree and others got back into position.

1) We have the situation under control. 4-vs-4 at the back, 3-vs-3 in midfield all our players goal side. Lenihan wins initial header.
View attachment 42446

2)Lenihan allows the man he is marking to spin and makes the poor decision to leave him and press the ball, despite McGree being in proximity to the player and despite the ball being fully 65+ yards from goal.
View attachment 42447

3) Lenihan is too slow to challenge and the ball is played beyond him. He has left Bola hung out ot dry, 2 vs 1, Howson and Dijksteel are exposed centrally as they have space behind to defend and two players to mark who are spread apart, so can't work together to cover them.
View attachment 42448

4) Howson is forced to move over to support Bola because Lenihan is now 25 yard out of position. Lenihan should be where Dijksteel is and Dijksteel should be marking their number 10. The key though is Lenihan is 25 yards out of position because he went steaming into midfield for a ball he was never going to win.
View attachment 42449

5) Dijksteel, Howson and Bola are all doing their jobs, but there is a free man from the 4-vs-3 break. Lenihan isn't even back in the box yet, on the edge of the frame. This was all preventable by Lenihan staying with his man and retreating in frame 2. It was a poor decision from an experienced player. Like I said though, I'll put it down to try too hard to impress on his debut. Without the ball this was his only mistake, with the ball he was a bit sloppy too.
View attachment 42450

I'm not sure how that goal can be blamed on anyone other than Lenihan, maybe McGree could have challenged better for the initial ball, but he was back to goal and it dropped away from him, the defender had the run on him. so he would always be second best to that dropping ball.
People forget with Fry - and I say this as someone who likes and rates him - is that he’s been a focal point of a team that has spent much of the past five years treading water in the second tier. The sort of goals we’ve conceded this season, it’s not like we’ve not conceded poor goals when Fry has played.

For me, and to my mind, and I’ve said this for years, our main weaknesses lie in the middle of the field. We have a lack of presence in there. Not since the Clayton and Leadbitter era, the axis of excellence, have we had what was required to compete and win on a weekly basis, across a whole season.

I think Howson is good but he’s ‘doing a job’ as a defensive shield. This team requires an orthodox defensive midfielder and Howson isn’t that. And now Tav has gone that area of the team is VERY exposed. Putting someone in the heart of the team would maybe allow Howson to move up, we could do with his bite and energy higher up. That ‘holding role’ has been vacant for years IMO. Much like the left-hand side of the central defence since Gibson left.

Put Dael in yesterday and we probably still lose 3-2. I think he played at Preston on the last day of last season? So he isn’t infallible. He’s good, obviously, but I don’t think he turns a shoeing into a victory. We’ve been pumped with him on the field before.

For me the balance of the team obviously isn’t right. It isn’t just the strikers. I’d love to think we’d add Choudhry to the side and just let him run the midfield. I think he’s got a real presence about him. I think for Fry, and Lenihan, whichever of them isn’t playing, the other one will be the one we’re demanding to be brought back in.

Once the team is right, which, let’s face it, is going to be another month, things will settle down. We’ve got to be patient. This bloke knows he’s doing.

Back him, enjoy it, support it. Give him time. He’ll make mistakes like anyone else but I think we should trust him. He’s got 20 years of experience and success behind him. That’s why he’s here.
Completely agree howson needs a good defensive partner until that's fixed we will struggle to boss games. That position to me should be the number 1 priority to resolve
 

BoroMart

Well-known member
People forget with Fry - and I say this as someone who likes and rates him - is that he’s been a focal point of a team that has spent much of the past five years treading water in the second tier. The sort of goals we’ve conceded this season, it’s not like we’ve not conceded poor goals when Fry has played.
He was 18 5 years ago, even a year ago I would have classed him as very much still learning. He had some troubles last season, his consistency was all over, great for 3 weeks then a stinker. I still think in a back 3, he has to be in there, until we get a new LCB
 

viv_andersons_nana

Well-known member
I take your point but he was 19 five years ago and will be 25 in two weeks. He’s been at the heart of our defence for four full years. How long do we wait for him to really hit the heights every week? Across a 46 game season I mean.

As I say, I like him and think he’s a good player and started to really flourish under Wilder last season like a fair few others. But then he faded, like he did under Warnock, as did a fair few others, like they did under Warnock.

But we’ve been walloped with him on the field before and I don’t *think* he’d have made much difference to us. I suppose it’s irrelevant, we’ll never know.

I just assumed we’d be Dijksteel, Fry and Lenihan at the back TBH. Let’s see how it pans out. I’m surprised he hasn’t played yet but he’s had an injury hasn’t he? We maybe can’t afford to risk. Like having to take Forss off. We’re thin on the ground.
 
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TheYorkshireTerrier

Well-known member
Just a thought but I wonder if Ben Godfrey’s broken leg he got yesterday will cause Everton to panic buy a defender, I’m sure Fry has been linked with them in the last couple of years.
 

BoroMart

Well-known member
I take your point but he was 19 five years ago and will be 25 in two weeks. He’s been at the heart of our defence for four full years. How long do we wait for him to really hit the heights every week? Across a 46 game season I mean.
oops, I thought he was a year younger, well he's fooked then if he can't make it now :p

Seriously though, he's a decent player, just not as good as the hype, CBs are probably the outfield role that matures the latest, because you have to have the physicality to compete, and that tends to come with age. You also have to have impecable positioning and game reading to be a decent CB and that takes game time.

By the time you get to 200 league starts, you should be the complete package. Dael is at 159 league starts. so he should be at that stage where he's ironing out any final flaws.
 

sambaDTR

Well-known member
What do people want from Fry? If Wilder want to play gung ho attacking football, play on the front foot, go out the front door then you still need to keep the goals out. Fry is an out and out defender. This team needs an out and out defender and it is not Steffen.
 

Borehamwood_Boro

Active member
I loved Bamba and thought he put in some top performances, but I am not sure he was 'important' to us. Valued yes. He was never first choice but when called upon due to circumstances such as injuries, suspensions and rotation, he was excellent.

As for Fry being a dud. If you think that, time to take up another sport mate.
I bet on sport for a living, I get more right than I lose and make pretty decent predictions ;)
 

wilkos_perm

Well-known member
Living abroad I admittedly haven't seen that much of Fry, clearly nowhere near as much as others on here but from what I have seen I don't really understand why he's rated so highly. He's good in the air but pretty poor on the ground. His distribution is non existent. What am I missing?

I also have not very positive views about McNair - other criticisms with him - so I can understand why they aren't nailed on starters. Here's hoping both prove me wrong!
Fry is pretty comffotable with the ball on the deck, i'm not sure which player you've been watching. In fact i'd say his composure his his best asset, yet in the air, considering his height, he could be a little stronger (the opposite of what you've said).
 

JaenBoro

Well-known member
Fry is pretty comffotable with the ball on the deck, i'm not sure which player you've been watching. In fact i'd say his composure his his best asset, yet in the air, considering his height, he could be a little stronger (the opposite of what you've said).
In the couple of matches I saw live last season I watched him fairly closely and that's what I'm basing my comments on. Maybe he had a couple of off days.
 

MVBoro

Active member
Like a lot of our players, particularly defenders - when he's good, he's very good, but when he makes a mistake, they are generally bad. We need consistency from our defence, more than anything else, which is why he bought in Lenihan. Early days, but no improvement yet.
 

wilkos_perm

Well-known member
Like a lot of our players, particularly defenders - when he's good, he's very good, but when he makes a mistake, they are generally bad. We need consistency from our defence, more than anything else, which is why he bought in Lenihan. Early days, but no improvement yet.
Lenihan was brought in for leadership qualities, which makes sense, but he's got to show tangible impact as i suspect he's a lesser player than Fry
 

sambaDTR

Well-known member
Terrible game tonight but Fry was the best defender by far. Had the only attempt on goal (header), apart from Watmore’s one on one with the keeper and the pass of the match to Forss, who should have scored. (y)
 
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allied_assault

Well-known member
Everything was under control until Lenihan decided to charge forward to try and press the midfielder. He left his man and once the ball was played past him it was a 4 vs 3 break. A chance on goal was inevitable at that point. He should have stayed with his man and conceded ground while McGree and others got back into position.

1) We have the situation under control. 4-vs-4 at the back, 3-vs-3 in midfield all our players goal side. Lenihan wins initial header.
View attachment 42446

2)Lenihan allows the man he is marking to spin and makes the poor decision to leave him and press the ball, despite McGree being in proximity to the player and despite the ball being fully 65+ yards from goal.
View attachment 42447

3) Lenihan is too slow to challenge and the ball is played beyond him. He has left Bola hung out ot dry, 2 vs 1, Howson and Dijksteel are exposed centrally as they have space behind to defend and two players to mark who are spread apart, so can't work together to cover them.
View attachment 42448

4) Howson is forced to move over to support Bola because Lenihan is now 25 yard out of position. Lenihan should be where Dijksteel is and Dijksteel should be marking their number 10. The key though is Lenihan is 25 yards out of position because he went steaming into midfield for a ball he was never going to win.
View attachment 42449

5) Dijksteel, Howson and Bola are all doing their jobs, but there is a free man from the 4-vs-3 break. Lenihan isn't even back in the box yet, on the edge of the frame. This was all preventable by Lenihan staying with his man and retreating in frame 2. It was a poor decision from an experienced player. Like I said though, I'll put it down to try too hard to impress on his debut. Without the ball this was his only mistake, with the ball he was a bit sloppy too.
View attachment 42450

I'm not sure how that goal can be blamed on anyone other than Lenihan, maybe McGree could have challenged better for the initial ball, but he was back to goal and it dropped away from him, the defender had the run on him. so he would always be second best to that dropping ball. I wouldn't class that as a rick, just got beaten to it. No one other than Lenihan had an error of judgement.
Mcgree was close to the player who eventually scored but didn’t track his man as Tav would have done
He ambled back
I said this at the time
 
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