Crypto

[Andy_W]

I've got a 3080 graphics card in my PC that I paid £700 for. It earns me between £5-9 a day mining ETH currently, costs me about 80p in electricity. Nice little earner.

How long will it be before that burns through the graphics card and rest of the PC? It's got to be killing the life of it?
What's the expected life?
What did the rest of the PC cost?
Does it make a racket, running at max all the time?
Is it worth the use of the room/ space?
How much time did you have to put into sorting it out and maintaining it?

Not having a dig, just wondering about the "total" cost.

I'm gonna have to build a new PC soon and need some high end graphics cards for CAD, I'm dreading it, heard prices are through the roof.

 

[NormanbyRed77]

I been following this one it's a going to be a new coin due for launch shortly called BoomCoin, but can get in early and hopefully make some money - I joined their discord support group at https://discord.gg/JY9jYWuQKR

 

[ThatFragranceGuy]

How long will it be before that burns through the graphics card and rest of the PC? It's got to be killing the life of it?
What's the expected life?
What did the rest of the PC cost?
Does it make a racket, running at max all the time?
Is it worth the use of the room/ space?
How much time did you have to put into sorting it out and maintaining it?

Not having a dig, just wondering about the "total" cost.

I'm gonna have to build a new PC soon and need some high end graphics cards for CAD, I'm dreading it, heard prices are through the roof.

PC probably cost me £4k all in, including 38 inch ultrawide monitor, mechanical keyboard, watercooling, 32gb ram, 10900k CPU and a load of other stuff, but I paid for it buying and selling tech stuff in the run up to Christmas so didn't really dent my bank balance.

Wont really impact my use of the card, its a top of the line EVGA FTW3 ultra, its running at about 50c core temp and 80C Vram temp. I use the PC daily, it wasnt built for mining, this is just something I am doing because I have it sat here idle when not gaming or working (It can be mining while I am working)

Cards have been used for mining for a long time and not really degraded their ability when sold on. GPU prices are through the roof, I could sell this card to CEX tomorrow for £1480 cash last I checked. This is why though - because people can make money by building an array with 20+ cards in, pay off the outlay in 2-4 months and then everything from there is profit. if crypto crashed and no longer became profitable you would still have a saleable asset

It doesnt make a racket because its not the GPU running at max, its the VRAM. my fans are at 30%. It definitely raises the temp of the room slightly, so in the heat of summer I'll maybe put it to 50% but my fans are all very low db noise ratings so it wont really impact it massively. All in all, its a nice little bonus seeing as the PC was all fully paid for, and now its earning a bit of passive income.

as for time for sorting it, you can be up and mining within 5 minutes, its literally register for a site, run an app and leave it going. mobile app will show you earnings or use web interface. no maintenance needed. already have the room in place as its my home office/gaming room;

(the wires are all hidden away now)

Wont be to everyone's tastes, but there's about 25 different lights in the room as I also use it as a spin studio, and massively into synthwave so like to have my colours vibe with the music. I've been working from home for 5 years so find having a customised space really valuable.

 

[HundredRoom]

Good time to buy now. Not for the profits you mention but a steady increase after the crash yesterday is probably on the cards *

*I haven’t got a clue by the way.

really ?

 

[HundredRoom]

I've got a 3080 graphics card in my PC that I paid £700 for. It earns me between £5-9 a day mining ETH currently, costs me about 80p in electricity. Nice little earner.

what software you using ?

 

[Middlesbrough123]

PC probably cost me £4k all in, including 38 inch ultrawide monitor, mechanical keyboard, watercooling, 32gb ram, 10900k CPU and a load of other stuff, but I paid for it buying and selling tech stuff in the run up to Christmas so didn't really dent my bank balance.

Wont really impact my use of the card, its a top of the line EVGA FTW3 ultra, its running at about 50c core temp and 80C Vram temp. I use the PC daily, it wasnt built for mining, this is just something I am doing because I have it sat here idle when not gaming or working (It can be mining while I am working)

Cards have been used for mining for a long time and not really degraded their ability when sold on. GPU prices are through the roof, I could sell this card to CEX tomorrow for £1480 cash last I checked. This is why though - because people can make money by building an array with 20+ cards in, pay off the outlay in 2-4 months and then everything from there is profit. if crypto crashed and no longer became profitable you would still have a saleable asset

It doesnt make a racket because its not the GPU running at max, its the VRAM. my fans are at 30%. It definitely raises the temp of the room slightly, so in the heat of summer I'll maybe put it to 50% but my fans are all very low db noise ratings so it wont really impact it massively. All in all, its a nice little bonus seeing as the PC was all fully paid for, and now its earning a bit of passive income.

as for time for sorting it, you can be up and mining within 5 minutes, its literally register for a site, run an app and leave it going. mobile app will show you earnings or use web interface. no maintenance needed. already have the room in place as its my home office/gaming room;

(the wires are all hidden away now)

Wont be to everyone's tastes, but there's about 25 different lights in the room as I also use it as a spin studio, and massively into synthwave so like to have my colours vibe with the music. I've been working from home for 5 years so find having a customised space really valuable.

Based on my post the other day that got deleted . A 15k rig was making about £$100 a day with x3 cards in it

 

[Andy_W]

I been following this one it's a going to be a new coin due for launch shortly called BoomCoin, but can get in early and hopefully make some money - I joined their discord support group at https://discord.gg/JY9jYWuQKR

Should be called "boomer coin", as it's the boomers who are going to end up largely footing the bill. Unless that's the actual joke of it, which wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Andy_W]

PC probably cost me £4k all in, including 38 inch ultrawide monitor, mechanical keyboard, watercooling, 32gb ram, 10900k CPU and a load of other stuff, but I paid for it buying and selling tech stuff in the run up to Christmas so didn't really dent my bank balance.

Wont really impact my use of the card, its a top of the line EVGA FTW3 ultra, its running at about 50c core temp and 80C Vram temp. I use the PC daily, it wasnt built for mining, this is just something I am doing because I have it sat here idle when not gaming or working (It can be mining while I am working)

Cards have been used for mining for a long time and not really degraded their ability when sold on. GPU prices are through the roof, I could sell this card to CEX tomorrow for £1480 cash last I checked. This is why though - because people can make money by building an array with 20+ cards in, pay off the outlay in 2-4 months and then everything from there is profit. if crypto crashed and no longer became profitable you would still have a saleable asset

It doesnt make a racket because its not the GPU running at max, its the VRAM. my fans are at 30%. It definitely raises the temp of the room slightly, so in the heat of summer I'll maybe put it to 50% but my fans are all very low db noise ratings so it wont really impact it massively. All in all, its a nice little bonus seeing as the PC was all fully paid for, and now its earning a bit of passive income.

as for time for sorting it, you can be up and mining within 5 minutes, its literally register for a site, run an app and leave it going. mobile app will show you earnings or use web interface. no maintenance needed. already have the room in place as its my home office/gaming room;



(the wires are all hidden away now)


Wont be to everyone's tastes, but there's about 25 different lights in the room as I also use it as a spin studio, and massively into synthwave so like to have my colours vibe with the music. I've been working from home for 5 years so find having a customised space really valuable.

Good stuff, looks great, but the offset monitor stand would drive me around the bend

It's a big outlay for a novice though (with no PC) and would take forever to get that back, if they could, and assuming it continues. But as the saying goes "if you have and can, then do". I've got a similar setup except with multiple screens and a decent PC, but want something more high end, mine is just for work though.

Does the watercooling make much noise? Can you watercool the graphics card? Wasn't sure if they just could only use onboard fans, the ones in mine are massive. The fans on the processor and PSU do my head in too, so I run all the cables through the wall from an adjacent room.

I think you would struggle to sell cards if the market crashed, as the market would be flooded with used cards which everyone would be well aware had taken a beating. The card price must be related to the coin price.

Yeah, I would have thought you would have got some "free" heating out of it

I imagine all the mining software is benefitted by multi-core and gaming GPU's, they don't quite work as well for CAD, which is single-core still, I think. The best CAD cards are like 2-5k, for the Quadro's and that was before the market went mental, not sure that there are now. Although I net miners aren't using those. I've never bought one mind, always gone for a second-tier gaming card.

It's funny, I've got all the gear to probably do that now (a lot more than most), but the energy of it just doesn't sit right with me.

 

[Laughing]

Quantum computing, if it ever becomes mainstream will kill crypto currencies in a weekend,i would have thought.

 

[ThatFragranceGuy]

Should be called "boomer coin", as it's the boomers who are going to end up largely footing the bill. Unless that's the actual joke of it, which wouldn't surprise me.

trouble is people (inc myself) have been saying this about Bitcoin for years, people were called mad for buying in at £10, £100, idiots at £1000, mental at £10,000 etc. Someone once bought a pizza for 10,000 BTC which is 280 million quid at today’s value. Every time in its history the price shoots up everyone warns against it saying it’s gonna fail any day now, then smugly says I told you so when there is a crash, but then it goes up to new heights. I nearly put £5k into it in 2020 when I started my new job as felt it would go up in the pandemic but decided against it, could have sold it at £40k and made a huge wedge.

Good stuff, looks great, but the offset monitor stand would drive me around the bend

It's a big outlay for a novice though (with no PC) and would take forever to get that back, if they could, and assuming it continues. But as the saying goes "if you have and can, then do". I've got a similar setup except with multiple screens and a decent PC, but want something more high end, mine is just for work though.

Does the watercooling make much noise? Can you watercool the graphics card? Wasn't sure if they just could only use onboard fans, the ones in mine are massive. The fans on the processor and PSU do my head in too, so I run all the cables through the wall from an adjacent room.

I think you would struggle to sell cards if the market crashed, as the market would be flooded with used cards which everyone would be well aware had taken a beating. The card price must be related to the coin price.

Yeah, I would have thought you would have got some "free" heating out of it

I imagine all the mining software is benefitted by multi-core and gaming GPU's, they don't quite work as well for CAD, which is single-core still, I think. The best CAD cards are like 2-5k, for the Quadro's and that was before the market went mental, not sure that there are now. Although I net miners aren't using those. I've never bought one mind, always gone for a second-tier gaming card.

It's funny, I've got all the gear to probably do that now (a lot more than most), but the energy of it just doesn't sit right with me.

The offset monitor stand works for me as if it was in the middle my stream deck would have to be further forward. The desk would also need to be further from the wall as the mount is free motion so I can move it in any direction, but to have it installed dead centre the arm needs to go straight back in a > shape towards the wall, and I don’t want to have a desk that’s about a foot away from the wall I’d also have to redo the support leg on the desk as the mount arm would not fit under the desk due to that being right at the back, so would be an all round ball ache to sort out

anyone getting into mining wouldn’t need to spend anywhere near that much, these are all high or top end components, and a lot of cosmetic stuff like my water cooling unit has an lcd display that will display either animated gifs or custom data like system temps. Water cooling makes very little noise, it still has fans for the radiator, but they’re very quiet, and the case still has fans but they are very quiet also. The gpu has fans but again set to low, overall the system makes very little noise. It’s all set to run on a curve depending on core temps so unless it skyrockets in temps fans are set to run silently. When i game they spin up, but beyond that Its pretty quiet. You can water cool gpu’s but it’s a bit of a bother and the cards are rarer to get hold of.

CPU doesn’t really benefit mining, you can mine with it but it’s pence per day and you probably lose money with energy use. It’s all done using the gpu and it’s specifically the vram/rendering part doing the work. Energy impact isn’t ideal but at about 70p per day it’s hardly the end of the world. People have water features, ponds, hot tubs etc that cost them money instead of making them money and they probably cost similar. I don’t travel for work personally except in very rare circumstances so I’ve definitely offset any extra impacts

GPU prices would take a while to crash because beyond mining, the true target market is still not saturated and supplies are extremely low due to competition from multiple sources for the same parts - Ps5, Xbox, pc vendors, gpu market etc all vying for the same DDR ram and silicon facilities and there is only so much output, it’s all heavily botted so even when stock does arrive it’s bought instantly unless very lucky.

worst case if a card is bought for £650 (Nvidia FE), and a barebones system for say £350 for psu, ram, cpu, psu and case, cheap used monitor, you have your investment back in 4 or so months depending on prices. Anything after that is profit, and you have a saleable asset. Even if prices dropped on gpu’s, you would roll be able to sell that gpu alone in 2 years time for £400ish based on historic prices. People wouldn’t be aware the card had taken a beating, there is nothing to say that a card has been used for mining and if it’s well maintained it will be working perfectly - it’s akin to doing a load of motorway miles in a car, as long as it’s been looked after and not gunned in first gear, it will have been operating as designed within spec temps and will perform as expected in benchmarks - this has been shown repeatedly with previous generation cards sold on once miners are finished with them.

I cba building a mining rig and filling it with cards, besides cats would probably just sleep in it and mess it up, but can totally add why people would

Quantum computing, if it ever becomes mainstream will kill crypto currencies in a weekend,i would have thought.

Here’s Why Quantum Computing Will Not Break Cryptocurrencies

Quantum computing isn't going to suddenly end the security of cryptocurrencies and bitcoin. Here's why.

www.forbes.com

 

[Laughing]

trouble is people (inc myself) have been saying this about Bitcoin for years, people were called mad for buying in at £10, £100, idiots at £1000, mental at £10,000 etc. Someone once bought a pizza for 10,000 BTC which is 280 million quid at today’s value. Every time in its history the price shoots up everyone warns against it saying it’s gonna fail any day now, then smugly says I told you so when there is a crash, but then it goes up to new heights. I nearly put £5k into it in 2020 when I started my new job as felt it would go up in the pandemic but decided against it, could have sold it at £40k and made a huge wedge.

The offset monitor stand works for me as if it was in the middle my stream deck would have to be further forward. The desk would also need to be further from the wall as the mount is free motion so I can move it in any direction, but to have it installed dead centre the arm needs to go straight back in a > shape towards the wall, and I don’t want to have a desk that’s about a foot away from the wall I’d also have to redo the support leg on the desk as the mount arm would not fit under the desk due to that being right at the back, so would be an all round ball ache to sort out

anyone getting into mining wouldn’t need to spend anywhere near that much, these are all high or top end components, and a lot of cosmetic stuff like my water cooling unit has an lcd display that will display either animated gifs or custom data like system temps. Water cooling makes very little noise, it still has fans for the radiator, but they’re very quiet, and the case still has fans but they are very quiet also. The gpu has fans but again set to low, overall the system makes very little noise. It’s all set to run on a curve depending on core temps so unless it skyrockets in temps fans are set to run silently. When i game they spin up, but beyond that Its pretty quiet. You can water cool gpu’s but it’s a bit of a bother and the cards are rarer to get hold of.

CPU doesn’t really benefit mining, you can mine with it but it’s pence per day and you probably lose money with energy use. It’s all done using the gpu and it’s specifically the vram/rendering part doing the work. Energy impact isn’t ideal but at about 70p per day it’s hardly the end of the world. People have water features, ponds, hot tubs etc that cost them money instead of making them money and they probably cost similar. I don’t travel for work personally except in very rare circumstances so I’ve definitely offset any extra impacts

GPU prices would take a while to crash because beyond mining, the true target market is still not saturated and supplies are extremely low due to competition from multiple sources for the same parts - Ps5, Xbox, pc vendors, gpu market etc all vying for the same DDR ram and silicon facilities and there is only so much output, it’s all heavily botted so even when stock does arrive it’s bought instantly unless very lucky.

worst case if a card is bought for £650 (Nvidia FE), and a barebones system for say £350 for psu, ram, cpu, psu and case, cheap used monitor, you have your investment back in 4 or so months depending on prices. Anything after that is profit, and you have a saleable asset. Even if prices dropped on gpu’s, you would roll be able to sell that gpu alone in 2 years time for £400ish based on historic prices. People wouldn’t be aware the card had taken a beating, there is nothing to say that a card has been used for mining and if it’s well maintained it will be working perfectly - it’s akin to doing a load of motorway miles in a car, as long as it’s been looked after and not gunned in first gear, it will have been operating as designed within spec temps and will perform as expected in benchmarks - this has been shown repeatedly with previous generation cards sold on once miners are finished with them.

I cba building a mining rig and filling it with cards, besides cats would probably just sleep in it and mess it up, but can totally add why people would

Here’s Why Quantum Computing Will Not Break Cryptocurrencies

Quantum computing isn't going to suddenly end the security of cryptocurrencies and bitcoin. Here's why.

www.forbes.com

I wasnt so much referring to block chain security being susceptible as to how quickly mining would happen.

I suspect governments will sweep up all the unmined assets, assuming, of course that a government funded quantum computer is first and not developed in someone's shed for tuppence ha'penny

 

[ThatFragranceGuy]

I wasnt so much referring to block chain security being susceptible as to how quickly mining would happen.

I suspect governments will sweep up all the unmined assets, assuming, of course that a government funded quantum computer is first and not developed in someone's shed for tuppence ha'penny

Well suffice to say it’s a question that gets asked about 5 times a day on BTC / crypto forums and people don’t seem overly concerned about it.

 

[Laughing]

Well suffice to say it’s a question that gets asked about 5 times a day on BTC / crypto forums and people don’t seem overly concerned about it.

Thats interesting Fair. We are probably 10 years away from mainstream quantum computing. When it arrives, mining will become a trivial activity though simply because of the vast concurrent power of quantum computers. I think Sycamore completed a maths problem in 200 seconds that they estimated the best super computers in the world would take 10,000 years. IBM argued this and said they coudl do it in 2.5 days, but didn't go ahead and demonstrate this, which does beg a question.

It may be there are bigger fish to fry with a quantum computer, predicting weather patterns, volcanoe eruptions, earthquakes and for governments, breaking encryption might be a go-to task.

 

[Andy_W]

trouble is people (inc myself) have been saying this about Bitcoin for years, people were called mad for buying in at £10, £100, idiots at £1000, mental at £10,000 etc. Someone once bought a pizza for 10,000 BTC which is 280 million quid at today’s value. Every time in its history the price shoots up everyone warns against it saying it’s gonna fail any day now, then smugly says I told you so when there is a crash, but then it goes up to new heights. I nearly put £5k into it in 2020 when I started my new job as felt it would go up in the pandemic but decided against it, could have sold it at £40k and made a huge wedge.

The offset monitor stand works for me as if it was in the middle my stream deck would have to be further forward. The desk would also need to be further from the wall as the mount is free motion so I can move it in any direction, but to have it installed dead centre the arm needs to go straight back in a > shape towards the wall, and I don’t want to have a desk that’s about a foot away from the wall I’d also have to redo the support leg on the desk as the mount arm would not fit under the desk due to that being right at the back, so would be an all round ball ache to sort out

anyone getting into mining wouldn’t need to spend anywhere near that much, these are all high or top end components, and a lot of cosmetic stuff like my water cooling unit has an lcd display that will display either animated gifs or custom data like system temps. Water cooling makes very little noise, it still has fans for the radiator, but they’re very quiet, and the case still has fans but they are very quiet also. The gpu has fans but again set to low, overall the system makes very little noise. It’s all set to run on a curve depending on core temps so unless it skyrockets in temps fans are set to run silently. When i game they spin up, but beyond that Its pretty quiet. You can water cool gpu’s but it’s a bit of a bother and the cards are rarer to get hold of.

CPU doesn’t really benefit mining, you can mine with it but it’s pence per day and you probably lose money with energy use. It’s all done using the gpu and it’s specifically the vram/rendering part doing the work. Energy impact isn’t ideal but at about 70p per day it’s hardly the end of the world. People have water features, ponds, hot tubs etc that cost them money instead of making them money and they probably cost similar. I don’t travel for work personally except in very rare circumstances so I’ve definitely offset any extra impacts

GPU prices would take a while to crash because beyond mining, the true target market is still not saturated and supplies are extremely low due to competition from multiple sources for the same parts - Ps5, Xbox, pc vendors, gpu market etc all vying for the same DDR ram and silicon facilities and there is only so much output, it’s all heavily botted so even when stock does arrive it’s bought instantly unless very lucky.

worst case if a card is bought for £650 (Nvidia FE), and a barebones system for say £350 for psu, ram, cpu, psu and case, cheap used monitor, you have your investment back in 4 or so months depending on prices. Anything after that is profit, and you have a saleable asset. Even if prices dropped on gpu’s, you would roll be able to sell that gpu alone in 2 years time for £400ish based on historic prices. People wouldn’t be aware the card had taken a beating, there is nothing to say that a card has been used for mining and if it’s well maintained it will be working perfectly - it’s akin to doing a load of motorway miles in a car, as long as it’s been looked after and not gunned in first gear, it will have been operating as designed within spec temps and will perform as expected in benchmarks - this has been shown repeatedly with previous generation cards sold on once miners are finished with them.

I cba building a mining rig and filling it with cards, besides cats would probably just sleep in it and mess it up, but can totally add why people would

Here’s Why Quantum Computing Will Not Break Cryptocurrencies

Quantum computing isn't going to suddenly end the security of cryptocurrencies and bitcoin. Here's why.

www.forbes.com

The problem is, boomers are greedy, and always think it will go higher. They never get in at the low and sell at the high, as they're not well informed, they get in half on the way up if they're lucky and then sell before the base of the next dip if they're lucky. Loads buy at peaks, and sell at dips when they get paper hands.
I actually got in about Nov 2017 I think it was, but got out maybe Dec 17/ Jan 18, over the Christmas break, I think I made about 10% (could have been +30% or -10% from recollection) but it was bonkers (stressful). It's made me not do it again since. I've been against "most" people buying in since, and still say the same even after the increase. Most just don't know enough, and being passive on this is far too dangerous.

I've never met anyone that's done 8x recently, I knew a few who got in at 30k and sold at around 45k, and other examples like that. It's a 50% gain, which is good, obviously. The thing is, in the last year the NASDAQ (pretty much the tech index) has gone up 50% too, but with less risk and won't go to zero, albeit that is overvalued too. Something like SMT (tech stock fund effectively) is up 220% and that's much lower risk than BTC (albeit still risky), it was up nearly 300% but is in a correction/ dip itself.

I debated putting my middle monitor stand in the wall, like through a cut out, but gave up in the end, routing 20 cables through the wall and round to my receiver was enough bother.

Yeah, I bet there's a queue of gamers still needing cards, and the chip manufacturers can't keep up with demand, some of my investments are split into those I think, I know they've been doing well out of this anyway.

 

[Laughing]

There are other investment vehicles that are less risky and give decent returns. Hell I spent 3 months developing a ML algorithm that outperforms both my ISA's by about 10x on predicting above and below 2.5 goals in games of footie, and games that will not end 1-1.

If you want to make money there are lots of ways to do that, ways that have much less risk and can be more lucrative, if you compound.

Like all speculative things, have some fun with it, but understand the risk and write off the money you have invested in crypto.

 

[B17er]

TheFair86 - How the hell did you manage to get that card for £700? There RRP is more than that. I paid £730 for an MSI Gaming X Trio 3080 and thought I'd done well!!

Also - are you sure the VRAM is only hitting 80 degrees? The latest version of HWInfo64 had readings from some other sensors I believe and people found that VRAM was closer to 100 degrees when mining. I appreciate you may have undervolted it, but worth checking. I still dont think it would have any significant impact on the life of the card.

 

[Ingleby_Flash]

My gut feeling is the whole think is one big, constantly recycling, pump and dump. But I really don’t understand it, and for that reason I’m out.

 

[ThatFragranceGuy]

TheFair86 - How the hell did you manage to get that card for £700? There RRP is more than that. I paid £730 for an MSI Gaming X Trio 3080 and thought I'd done well!!

Also - are you sure the VRAM is only hitting 80 degrees? The latest version of HWInfo64 had readings from some other sensors I believe and people found that VRAM was closer to 100 degrees when mining. I appreciate you may have undervolted it, but worth checking. I still dont think it would have any significant impact on the life of the card.

I got it from Amazon USA in October. It was a great deal. I got loads of them from amazon.es up until brexit, and just sold them to CEX for £400 profit apiece. It would Now be doubling the money, I didn’t really intend to get into gpu selling but I could originally only get a ventus and paid 780 for that! Some guy offered me £950 for it so decided I would get another one and got a zotac off amazon.fr but didn’t like the rgb and again someone offered me a load for it. They weren’t too hard to get hold of before brexit as long as you used a stock alert discord’s.

yes definitely reporting vram temps correct, nicehash tells you directly, so does the evga app which is terrible. The evga cards use really good thermal pads on the vram. My friend has a gaming trio too and he has the same nicehash settings as me and he was running between 95-105 until he put some case fans under his gpu. It doesn’t sit rock solid on 80, it goes between 80-85c, and if my cat discovers the pc and sits on top of it then it goes to 95. Apparently throttles at 110 and is bad at 120 or above so plenty of headroom. But other than gpu and the cpu pump we have identical systems (he has the same cpu pump but without the lcd display) and my 3dmark scores are far higher than his. I do undervolt however for better efficiency which helps with temps a bit

 

[BlindBoyGrunt]

My gut feeling is the whole think is one big, constantly recycling, pump and dump. But I really don’t understand it, and for that reason I’m out.

There's more than just trying to buy and sell at the right time, like investing in projects.

 

[ThatFragranceGuy]

what software you using ?

Nicehash