Covid: No plans for October lockdown, says government

[Subbuteo_171]

Look at the spike in Scotland as soon as the kids went back to school. That’s with the additional restrictions they have - England now has the schools back, more people in the office / on public transport with university to start and with the onset of autumn and winter.

It might not be palatable but unfortunately looks like something will be needed.

 

[Randy]

If you're genuinely going to debate. Don't so things as silly as "for good" when no one in the world has ever argued for that

What's there to debate? There are hundreds if not thousands of examples of businesses around England that have closed for good since the first lockdown was initiated.

I'll use your argument about truckers and their wages against you here. Who pays for the NHS and it's services when there is a shortfall of taxes due to people been unemployed and businesses not paying ridiculous high Street business rates? Remember you voted for a man who plastered £350 million on the side of a bus, where's that money. Contrary to popular belief there are more things to 'protect' in this country than just a badly run and badly funded NHS.

Anyways I'm out of the convo for the best few. A catch up with friends, work colleagues and old work colleagues is calling. Beer to be drunk, socialising to do.

 

[SmallTown]

What's there to debate? There are hundreds if not thousands of examples of businesses around England that have closed for good since the first lockdown was initiated.

I'll use your argument about truckers and their wages against you here. Who pays for the NHS and it's services when there is a shortfall of taxes due to people been unemployed and businesses not paying ridiculous high Street business rates? Remember you voted for a man who plastered £350 million on the side of a bus, where's that money. Contrary to popular belief there are more things to 'protect' in this country than just a badly run and badly funded NHS.

Anyways I'm out of the convo for the best few. A catch up with friends, work colleagues and old work colleagues is calling. Beer to be drunk, socialising to do.

I don't think you understood my argument in the truckers wages thread if you think your example is using it against me!!!

And as for the first paragraph: what is there to debate?? That's what this whole thread is about and pretty much this whole message board. Don't have an opinion on a subject and get upset when it gets challenged. And stop using absolutes like "lockdown for good" because its a silly and over the top comment

 

[Adi_Dem]

We

I don't think you understood my argument in the truckers wages thread if you think your example is using it against me!!!

And as for the first paragraph: what is there to debate?? That's what this whole thread is about and pretty much this whole message board. Don't have an opinion on a subject and get upset when it gets challenged. And stop using absolutes like "lockdown for good" because its a silly and over the top comment

He made it clear he didn’t understand the arguments in the trucker thread with every response. Much like he demonstrates an absence of understanding this topic. More worryingly though there seems to also be a callous apathy, which is much harder to swallow.

 

[SmallTown]

We


He made it clear he didn’t understand the arguments in the trucker thread with every response. Much like he demonstrates an absence of understanding this topic. More worryingly though there seems to also be a callous apathy, which is much harder to swallow.

You're correct. The misunderstanding can be forgiven. The rest is a lot less pleasant

 

[JM14]

How many other countries around the world are currently considering a lockdown other than New Zealand and Australia.

All another lockdown will do is pause the inevitable. As witnessed over the past few months.

I’d expect the majority of the world are living under some form of restriction still

it’s not delaying the inevitable, it would reduce the peak of cases which would stop hospitals running at capacity, make sure people can actually receive treatment for Covid and other emergencies. Doing nothing would result in someone not receiving care they needed on top of the thousands of deaths

 

[Randy]

Notice that not one of the usual suspects has commented on the telegraph piece.

 

[Adi_Dem]

Notice that not one of the usual suspects has commented on the telegraph piece.

Largely because (amongst a number of other things) (a) it’s written by Andrew Lilico an economist with no demonstrable expertise in the subject matter he’s pontificating about and a long history of getting it wrong time and time again, (b) the ‘evidence’ he cites is flimsy and the wrong data to look at, (c) lockdown will be driven by exponential growth, deaths and rising hospitalisations ie the real time data (and rightly so), (d) hospital beds are only part of the equation (and it’s a useless statistic anyway) because the real bottlenecks are medical equipment, staff, ICU beds etc and (e) his premise is that a certain number of deaths is acceptable so how many - 200? 300?

To quote Sage (you know the actual experts rather than the economist writing guff in the Telegraph:

“… while Covid deaths are significantly higher than at the same point 12 months ago, they would have to rise fivefold to match those experienced in late October last year.

“We are going to be at a peak, albeit an extended peak, quite soon, so it’s not really the same situation as last year, when failure to reduce prevalence would have resulted in collapse of NHS and people dying in car parks,”

“Hospitals might be overflowing before deaths reach the same level. Acting early will prevent this level.”

If you wait for the current data to justify taking measures then you’ve acted too late.

But hey it won’t affect you anyway, you’re not going to do anything whether it’s simply wearing a mask or obeying a lockdown. Why should you?

 

[Adi_Dem]

There are some people with some utterly repulsive views on this thread.

I hope I never come across any of you at a Middlesbrough match.

Only one as far as I can see.

 

[Subbuteo_171]

Don’t think Randy’s views are utterly repulsive, they are borne out of frustration it seems to me.

 

[Adi_Dem]

Wasn’t talking about Randy.
Best wishes.

Then who?

 

[Adi_Dem]

Best not ask.

Ah so me then. Got it. Utter nonsense of course, there isn’t a single post that could legitimately be described as repulsive but hey ho.

 

[dooderooni]

Notice that not one of the usual suspects has commented on the telegraph piece.

Well, for a start I'd argue that the phrase 'herd immunity for the summer' is a tad misleading given that we don't know what the figure for herd immunity actually is.
Also, what is the 'herd immunity for the winter' going to be if we are looking at 1.2m active cases with this so-called 'summer herd immunity'?
Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but does anyone else struggle with the apparent contradiction in this extract?
'The lockdown last winter was not to avoid 3,800 admissions per day. That was what we had with the lockdown. That lockdown was to buy time for the vaccination programme and to avoid a far higher load of admissions than we experienced.'
The Delta variant is more transmissible than the Alpha version that was prevalent last winter so it is foolhardy to predict that we won't need another lockdown this winter as we simply don't know how Delta (or a new variant) might interact with people spending more time indoors, far less masking and social distancing to limit viral.loads and the normal factors that make winters more of a challenge for the health service.
No-one wants another lockdown, but it's hard to rule one out given the changing landscape of Covid that we've seen over the course of the pandemic.

 

[Adi_Dem]

Do feel free to click the ignore button.

I’m fine thanks. I’m not the one calling others’ views repulsive.

 

[Adi_Dem]

Very confusing. Anyway, moving on!

Very good points @dooderooni - the article simply doesn’t make sense and badly misinterprets largely irrelevant data.

 

[thewanderer]

Very confusing. Anyway, moving on!

Very good points @dooderooni - the article simply doesn’t make sense and badly misinterprets largely irrelevant data.

You have a lot of trouble accepting that people disagree with you. Are you like this in real life?

 

[JM14]

Lockdown is fine for those working for government or NHS or working from home.

**** everyone else though.

Good thing I'm in the pub tonight. If the behavioural scientists and medical professionals had their way they'd all be shutdown for good. They've already killed off enough "non essential" businesses, may aswell kill them all off.

Lockdown

its not about personal circumstances though, admittedly it will change some people’s perspective and I completely get why you would be so against it, but if we get to the stage where the NHS is ever overwhelmed that impacts all of us, regardless of age/vulnerability/finances. The country is practically on its knees as we stand

Personally I don’t know why mask wearing, distancing and isolation etc was removed so early, if the government had been realistic we wouldn’t be even been talking about the need for another lockdown at this stage, but what option will they have if cases start to rise again

 

[Adi_Dem]

You have a lot of trouble accepting that people disagree with you. Are you like this in real life?

I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me. You’re confusing defending a viewpoint with having a problem. No harm done though.

 

[Aet290204]

You have a lot of trouble accepting that people disagree with you. Are you

You have a lot of trouble accepting that people disagree with you. Are you like this in real life?

Sick of reading the utter ***** on here.
No understanding or compassion for anyone’s personal circumstances. Sick of it. Utterly bloody sick of it. The thought of a lockdown would see me off. I’ve got the pills for the overdose and the bleach stockpiled upstairs.

 

[Adi_Dem]

Sick of reading the utter ***** on here.
No understanding or compassion for anyone’s personal circumstances. Sick of it. Utterly bloody sick of it. The thought of a lockdown would see me off. I’ve got the pills for the overdose and the bleach stockpiled upstairs.

And if you ever feel like that I am available to message, to talk to, to shout at - whatever you might need. I’m happy to give you my number or to meet you if we are anywhere near each other.

I think you’re seeing things that aren’t there in these posts. It’s just people expressing their views. Nothing more. Your personal circumstances mean you probably have a different viewpoint to mine but that shouldn’t be mistaken for an absence of understanding or compassion. I completely understand where you’re coming from. Although a different scenario, my brother is autistic and has other learning difficulties. He requires in home care. Lockdowns are incredibly difficult for him and the rest of the family. Last time he really struggled with loneliness but has other challenges too eg he almost burnt his house down during the last lockdown. Luckily somebody was there in time. Believe me when I tell you that I completely get it and I have absolute compassion for your circumstances and will do anything I possibly could to help you if you wanted or needed it. That doesn’t mean though that we have to agree with each other and it doesn’t mean my views are repulsive.