Controversial Covid post

1finny

Well-known member
Nonsense.

When
has the NHS had to deal with winter pressures in addition to Covid?

I’ll help you out - never.

You really believe that anyone fully understands the nature and impact of this virus?

In fairness the NHS struggles every year around this time. 2018, for instance was a shocker. NHS capacity isn’t finite and any bumps in the road expose that.
March was a whole lot more than a bump

The question is..... What does Covid + normal (At this time to year) look like?

Up to Oct 11th excess deaths were in line with 5 year average. Thankfully no bump.
Average age of patientS dying with Covid = 82.
I know one South Yorkshire hospital that, as of yesterday, has 140 Covid patients (v 4 in Sept). That’s a worry. Unfortunately, I don’t know what it was like last year.

Last week Manchester hospitals were reported as ‘struggling’ but then reported usage was down v Last year.

What happens next is crucial and we will soon find out?

It’s is reasonable to ask why these kinds of things aren’t being openly discussed and we are constantly being fed doomsday data.
 

Mwelolo

Member
NHS occ


Bed occupancy the same as last year, fully understands no. Now please get back to the topic.
You don’t think that the current situation is likely to deteriorate as infections continue to increase??

Today’s infections will play out on hospital wards over the next two to three weeks.
 

Alvez_48

Well-known member
You don’t think that the current situation is likely to deteriorate as infections continue to increase??

Today’s infections will play out on hospital wards over the next two to three weeks.

I'm not going to respond to any further posts of yours on this post unless you refer to the topic. 👍🏻
 

Subbuteo_171

Well-known member
We’ve all had Covid, my wife is still off work after 5 weeks and struggling with energy. She’s never off work, once in 12 years with tonsillitis before this.

My mother was admitted to JCUH on Friday with symptoms and tested positive. She has multiple underlying health conditions, so in the danger zone.

This **** is real, and going to get much, much worse for a lot of people.
 

Alvez_48

Well-known member
This is the topic.
It is so much easier to avoid than answer.

No I've pointed out the topic... You steadfastly refuse to discuss it.
Let's try again, what do you think of Yardley Yeadons' work into false positives and what does that mean to what we're seeing ?
 

Mwelolo

Member
We’ve all had Covid, my wife is still off work after 5 weeks and struggling with energy. She’s never off work, once in 12 years with tonsillitis before this.

My mother was admitted to JCUH on Friday with symptoms and tested positive. She has multiple underlying health conditions, so in the danger zone.

This **** is real, and going to get much, much worse for a lot of people.
You are absolutely right, I’m sad to say.
 

Corcaigh_the_Cat

Well-known member
Nonsense.

When
has the NHS had to deal with winter pressures in addition to Covid?

I’ll help you out - never.

You really believe that anyone fully understands the nature and impact of this virus?

We don't, and the local consultant blog is pretty clear about this.

On a personal front during the initial phase of the disease, I knew two people who died from it, another died after not recovering from it but. Around three months after having it, he was in his 50s, the others were a very overweight guy in his 60s and an old guy in his 80s. I didn't hear of many others that I knew getting the disease, a few, one who posts on here having it badly and 6 months on still suffering the after effects (long Covid?).

In the last few weeks, I know a lot of people who have caught the disease, including a couple in their 80s, the majority in their 50s and 60s, a few in their 30s. None have been hospitalised and some have underlying factors, including excess weight.

I haven't been overly cautious through the year and tried to ignore the scare stories as well as the deny squad. We had street parties during the lockdown, after lockdown I've been to pubs and clubs (not all of my old haunts) and started going to football matches as soon as the friendlies kicked off, helping out at a few of them including the bar.

At the moment I'm shielding after being asked to by a consultant but I'm more aware of the disease around me than ever before, so I'm not sure I'd be going to football and pubs as much I did in the late summer period.

I read the arguments about false positives etc, so there is a problem with the testing, not surprising with the process being handed to such an untrustworthy outfit as Serco. What I never hear from the same sources are that there's also a possibility false negatives, there's no balance.

I realise too that the disease is causing hardship for.many, I'm lucky in that respect, I don't however feel it's worth risking lives in order for non essential industry to be kept open. We don't need pubs, restaurants, gyms, theatres, spectator sport venues etc to be open, we don't need to return to 'normal'. We're a wealthy nation and during a national crisis the country should adapt to suit what's best for all. We're short of people trained in the testing process, how much training does it take and why can't those furloughed/made redundant from other sectors be re-employed and re-trained just for the tasks required for testing this particular virus. There's no need for full lab technician training is there, and once the virus is under control the ailing sectors will once again open their doors and redeployment can take place?

There may never be a vaccine, there wasn't one for Spanish flu and other coronavirus', it doesn't mean we still have them around.

We're a wealthy nation and at times of crisis the way wealth is distributed can be one more apparent to many who haven't particularly considered it in the past. The pressure of that awakening brought about a change in society which took immense pressure away from millions of people, the formation of the welfare state. Donning rose tinted glasses the outcome of the virus could beneficial too. Rather than simply pointing fingers at how places such as the Scandinavian countries are managing the virus (for the benefit of our own temporary personal situation) we could actually look at how they've been able to do that.

A spot of redistribution in the right direction will not only benefit the less well off financially but will ease the burden in the long term of services currently at breaking point to deal with them.

It would be worth asking the social commentators and overnight Covid19 experts what their underlying views are before soaking up some of their propaganda.
 

zorro_mfc

Well-known member
This all boils down to selfish people looking for any excuse to carry on as normal.

There is no second wave so why were hospitals emptying them only to be restocked now.

This kind of cod science is dangerous people do die from this hundreds of thousands already have and sadly thousands are soon to follow.

Why can’t people grasp this.
 
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Mwelolo

Member
This all boils down to selfish people like mr savage (who has repeatedly said on here that he will do what suits him and to hell with the rest of us) looking for any excuse to carry on as normal.

There is no second wave so why were hospitals emptying them only to be restocked now.

This kind of cod science is dangerous people do die from this hundreds of thousands already have and sadly thousands are soon to follow.

Why can’t people grasp this.
To a degree it is understandable that people will bury their heads in the sand when faced faced with a prospect more frightening than most people could have imagined.

Then of course there are others who are just selfish, as you say, in addition to those who are always looking for a conspiracy.

It will only be when many of these people are closely touched by the nasty side of Covid that they will change their views.
 
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FabioPorkpie

Well-known member
I’ve just skimmed through this thread and thanks for the replies, but I think the point of my initial post has got lost on some. It’s nothing to with denying the existence or problems of covid. Mike Yeadon is by no means a covid denier. That is not what he is saying at all. It is more about the progression of the pandemic and where things are currently.
Has anybody actually listened to the podcast? Granted, it’s 90 odd minutes long but listening to it with a skeptics ear I found little I could question, on the current evidence. I think it’s a difficult discussion worth having.

yhanks for those who have relied, ive not got time to read or respond properly today cos family duties, but will look properly tomorrow
 

Laughing

Well-known member
On the issue of false positives, something in this rings true if you look at how the disease seems to be progressing this time around. We have not seen an exponential increase that we seen earlier in the year. This indicates something has changed. Maybe the virus has mutated, maybe there were many many more infected people early in the year than was first thought.

We are seeing a steady increase of positive cases and hospitalizations and deaths. However not at the rate of increases we saw in March. If there are many false positives this could explain why we are not seeing exponential growth, maybe we have not reached the tipping point, maybe with the measures in place currently we never will.

If, and it is an if, cases and deaths continue to grow at a steady rate, we may eventually get back to numbers we saw in March.

As I said, hospitalisation and deaths are increasing much slower than in March, something or somethings have changed.
 

RandySavage

Well-known member
This all boils down to selfish people like mr savage (who has repeatedly said on here that he will do what suits him and to hell with the rest of us) looking for any excuse to carry on as normal.

There is no second wave so why were hospitals emptying them only to be restocked now.

This kind of cod science is dangerous people do die from this hundreds of thousands already have and sadly thousands are soon to follow.

Why can’t people grasp this.
If your going to call me selfish at least tag me in the post Zorro so I can respond to you directly.

How F***ing dare you call me selfish? The actions I take to look after the health and wellbeing, mental and physical, of MY family has absolutely nothing to do with you. Who the hell are you to judge?
A)
Nah it's ok covid-19 is the only thing that matters, everything else doesn't matter and your the one calling me selfish? 😂

Lots of selfish people at work today, first time I've sat down for a smoke in 3 hours and we've fed 200 people already, suppose they are all selfish too?
 

bear66

Well-known member
We’ve all had Covid, my wife is still off work after 5 weeks and struggling with energy. She’s never off work, once in 12 years with tonsillitis before this.

My mother was admitted to JCUH on Friday with symptoms and tested positive. She has multiple underlying health conditions, so in the danger zone.

This **** is real, and going to get much, much worse for a lot of people.
Hope all goes well for you and your Mum Subbuteo
 

zorro_mfc

Well-known member
The actions I take to look after the health and wellbeing, mental and physical, of MY family has absolutely nothing to do with you.
That is just the point though it does. It affects all of us. That is the point.

I have edited as I was discussing the issue I didn’t mean to get personal as that’s not the point it’s about the issue itself.
 
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ChrisTheRed

Active member
No I've pointed out the topic... You steadfastly refuse to discuss it.
Let's try again, what do you think of Yardley Yeadons' work into false positives and what does that mean to what we're seeing ?

Sadly there are too many people that soak up everything that MSM feeds them and then seek out confirmation bias and are unable to consider anything outside of that and if you are someone that is not that way you're portrayed by them as a granny murdering covid denier right wing maniac.
 

1finny

Well-known member
No I've pointed out the topic... You steadfastly refuse to discuss it.
Let's try again, what do you think of Yardley Yeadons' work into false positives and what does that mean to what we're seeing ?

I watched it
This guy has thrown down the gauntlet calling Vallance (an ex colleague of his) a liar or incompetent. He has also called other ‘experts’ liars and invited them to sue him. They haven’t,
In particular he uses Vallances statement that most people are susceptible is known to be incorrect. Indeed pre Covid there is a likely 30% immunity within the population because of other common cold coronaviruses. He says the science is unequivical.
His view - only 30% are now susceptible.
And, the virus is ‘slightly’ more lethal than seasonal flu.
He says it went through the population earlier this year ad followed the classic Gompertz curve which many predicted. It has continued to do so.

He is either brave, stupid or ill informed. We will know within weeks as he is categorical.
There will be no 2nd wave (no evidence that 2nd waves happen with this kind of virus).
His words are ‘a 2nd wave is impossible’ and uses sources to support his thinking.

The only reason the epidemic is not over is, he says, because SAGE say it isn’t over and he has invited them to resign

His assertion is if you test 300000 times you will get 15000 false positives because for many reasons including the ability of those doing the tests which, he says, is widely known.

A vaccine - at best will be 50% effective and, for reasons above, will only be relevant to a few people.

He urges us to stop mass testing and focus on those with symptoms.
People will die in the coming weeks from Covid but more will be tagged Covid because of the false positives and the spiral of fear will continue.

All interesting stuff - and he doesn’t go into motives for the lies.
 
Working as an intensive care doctor throughout both waves the numbers in the press seem to correlate with the numbers seen at work.

All medical tests have a false positive rate and a false negative rate. The Covid PCR test has a significantly higher false negative rate than false positive. If anything I think the numbers in the press are underestimating the prevalence. We are getting a lot of people admitted to hospital that have made no effort to get a test despite symptoms later in the disease progress.

The population of the hospital is currently completely different to a normal October with multiple wards having only covid on, and we are getting to the point where it is going to be increasingly difficult to safely continue normal elective care because of a lack of staff/space to provide high quality care.

I have seen first hand people dying of Covid and the current workload is high, but we do seem to be better at treating the condition.
 
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