Cleverly increases migrant salary

No more NHS nurses then ?!

Band 5 starts at £28,407, so we wont be getting any of those nurses back from abroad who used to look after our people - nurses whom we shot into space with BREXIT 🇪🇺 You have to have three years experience as a Band Six [Senior Nurse] to earn over £38k year. That means at least 5 years as a nurse and all the right openings falling for you at the right time.

Cleverley Voted For Brexit.

We`re so pretty, oh so pretty vacancies.....but he doesnt care, because he can afford private healthcare

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I don't know the detail but on the face of it the skilled worker element makes sense assuming there are exemptions.
The no-dependents thing is harder to square away though. Is it likely there will be a sizeable chunk of the workforce from Indonesia for example who will just leave their families to come and do health and social care. And if not, who will replace those people? Hopefully there is a deep pool of folks who want to come here and do the work who are young/single/sick of their families.
 
So what sort of jobs would an immigrant be able to do that a British person can't or is not willing to do. Does anyone have any specific examples. Or what sort of jobs can employers not fill from the UK workforce for £38000 that can't be filled.
 
Trug said:
So what sort of jobs would an immigrant be able to do that a British person can't or is not willing to do. Does anyone have any specific examples. Or what sort of jobs can employers not fill from the UK workforce for £38000 that can't be filled.
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The intention is obviously for high skilled workers that take too long to train that just raising wages won't encourage more people to apply for it. For example a doctor. If we decide we have a shortage then there's not much we can do within the UK labour force so we have to go external. There are also other high skill and niche skill jobs such as an engineer that works on a specific piece of equipment that nobody but a small number of people might have experience of. Or a specific piece of software that is no longer supported etc.

The argument against is that businesses should train their own skilled staff. They should offer apprenticeships and training schemes but most businesses just want the quickest and cheapest option and that's why they should be legislated against.

It is currently being abused by businesses who want to hire to highly skilled roles, which are expensive, so they are gaming the system to be able to offer it to foreigners for 80% of market rate. There is no shortage. They have engineered the shortage by asking for specific things that they know isn't 100% available when there is someone who has 90% of the skills but would be more expensive.
 
Trug said:
So what sort of jobs would an immigrant be able to do that a British person can't or is not willing to do. Does anyone have any specific examples. Or what sort of jobs can employers not fill from the UK workforce for £38000 that can't be filled.
Click to expand...
I don't think there's really any extensive study on this but I did find an article, not sure on the accuracy, but basically the UK is ****ed without migrant workers, proper ****ed.

migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk

Migrants in the UK Labour Market: An Overview - Migration Observatory

This briefing looks at the jobs migrant workers do, their role in the UK labour market and their labour market integration.
migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk
 
masquesmog said:
  • Health and social care visas will be exempt from the new higher threshold, in order to meet NHS staffing needs
according to the bbc
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There`s nothing concrete in his proposals. Bearing in mind that wages in the care sector are generally very low, particularly those who work in the community. Frequently wages are not much more than the minimum wage. As for qualified nursing staff - we have over 40,000 vacancies for Nurses in the NHS and the prohibition on families and dependents wont encourage those coming to the UK anywhere near the shortage in the NHS. He has raised the barriers to foreign skilled workers coming to the UK. Its appalling, but not surprising and on course for the further privatisation of the core of the NHS. Those with families are not going to be mercenaries: relying on phone calls, skype and occasional visits whilst paying to live here and send money home. There is a huge drive for nurses and qualified health-care staff in Australia and Canada, which is being advertised across all the leading Professional Health - Care journals, with very favourable salaries and settlement schemes. Equally, in Europe there are far greater opportunities, including research, development and enhancing practice. The red tape that Brexit created has sealed the doors and no bullschit from Mr Cleverly is going to make the slightest bit of difference.

[From the BBC Report]
The latest statistics show the challenge ministers will face in reducing migration into the health sector, which has come to rely heavily on hiring workers from abroad.
The government said in the year ending September 2023, 101,000 visas were issued to care workers.
An estimated 120,000 visas were granted to the family dependants of those care workers, the government said.
The care sector is facing staffing shortages and providers have resisted curbs on their ability to hire foreign workers.
The government's migration advisers have previously said "persistent underfunding" of local councils, which funds most adult social care, is the most important factor in the staffing crisis.
Mr Cleverly acknowledged some care workers might be deterred from coming to the UK because they would not be able to bring families under the new rules.
But he said he believed there would still be care workers who would be willing to work in the UK.

[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67612106]​
 
r00fie1 said:
There`s nothing concrete in his proposals. Bearing in mind that wages in the care sector are generally very low, particularly those who work in the community. Frequently wages are not much more than the minimum wage. As for qualified nursing staff - we have over 40,000 vacancies for Nurses in the NHS and the prohibition on families and dependents wont encourage those coming to the UK anywhere near the shortage in the NHS. He has raised the barriers to foreign skilled workers coming to the UK. Its appalling, but not surprising and on course for the further privatisation of the core of the NHS. Those with families are not going to be mercenaries: relying on phone calls, skype and occasional visits whilst paying to live here and send money home. There is a huge drive for nurses and qualified health-care staff in Australia and Canada, which is being advertised across all the leading Professional Health - Care journals, with very favourable salaries and settlement schemes. Equally, in Europe there are far greater opportunities, including research, development and enhancing practice. The red tape that Brexit created has sealed the doors and no bullschit from Mr Cleverly is going to make the slightest bit of difference.

[From the BBC Report]
The latest statistics show the challenge ministers will face in reducing migration into the health sector, which has come to rely heavily on hiring workers from abroad.
The government said in the year ending September 2023, 101,000 visas were issued to care workers.
An estimated 120,000 visas were granted to the family dependants of those care workers, the government said.
The care sector is facing staffing shortages and providers have resisted curbs on their ability to hire foreign workers.
The government's migration advisers have previously said "persistent underfunding" of local councils, which funds most adult social care, is the most important factor in the staffing crisis.
Mr Cleverly acknowledged some care workers might be deterred from coming to the UK because they would not be able to bring families under the new rules.
But he said he believed there would still be care workers who would be willing to work in the UK.

[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67612106]​
Click to expand...

completely agree. Don't get me wrong, this is just not the right way to attract the best people. In health and social care you want continuity, and people who want to stay with you as long as possible - indigenous or migrants. This doesn't help. This has got nothing to do with how best to deliver the services, and all to do with a panic about placating their own right wing about undeliverable promises on migration.
 
masquesmog said:
completely agree. Don't get me wrong, this is just not the right way to attract the best people. In health and social care you want continuity, and people who want to stay with you as long as possible - indigenous or migrants. This doesn't help. This has got nothing to do with how best to deliver the services, and all to do with a panic about placating their own right wing about undeliverable promises on migration.
Click to expand...
They really are scraping the barrel - but if they dont fill the political "dog-whistle" void, we will end up like Holland. Frightening.
 
Trug said:
So what sort of jobs would an immigrant be able to do that a British person can't or is not willing to do. Does anyone have any specific examples. Or what sort of jobs can employers not fill from the UK workforce for £38000 that can't be filled.
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Plenty of construction trades are currently filled by migrant workers and would earn over 38k. However these job are generally short term or not permanent roles so I'm not sure how these would affect the application.
 
The first thing that jumped out of his statement to me was overly-inflammatory language: he persistently used the word "abuse" when detailing health and social care workers bringing their families with them. While I can see why he might want to stop this, surely "abuse" was too accusatory word to use? Workers doing this were simply following the rules as they were, and it came across as a linguistic attempt to shift blame from those who wrote the rules to those following them. Playing to his audience probably.

Second, not allowing health and social care workers to bring dependants probably will be effective in cutting migration. However, we do need those migrants; for many, family responsibilities will be the difference between them coming and not coming; it's perfectly natural to want your family around you. I feel this policy prioritises the issue of reducing immigration over health and social care. Again, playing to the core Tory audience
 
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Frozen Horse said:
The first thing that jumped out of his statement to me was overly-inflammatory language: he persistently used the word "abuse" when detailing health and social care workers bringing their families with them. While I can see why he might want to stop this, surely "abuse" was too accusatory word to use? Workers doing this were simply following the rules as they were, and it came across as a linguistic attempt to shift blame from those who wrote the rules to those following them. Playing to his audience probably.

Second, not allowing health and social care workers to bring dependants probably will be effective in cutting migration. However, we do need those migrants; for many, family responsibilities will be the difference between them coming and not coming. I feel this policy prioritises the issue of reducing immigration over health and social care. Again, playing to the core Tory audience
Click to expand...
A lot of these middle aged racists who hate migrants may soon be chaging their tune when they realise there is nobody to look after their elderly relatives, leaving them to pick up the pieces.
 
Trug said:
So what sort of jobs would an immigrant be able to do that a British person can't or is not willing to do. Does anyone have any specific examples. Or what sort of jobs can employers not fill from the UK workforce for £38000 that can't be filled.
Click to expand...
Lower league footballers.
 
I work in IT where salaries would be over the threshold. I'd say in my department we are probly about 50% overseas workers (mainly india). It's an attempt to mitigate the issue of all work being sent offshore on the basis of price. The employees that are brought over are perfectly good at their jobs and generally bring their families over. I beleive they are paid a bit less than uk born employees.

I'm not sure if this practice stops uk grads from joining the IT workforce but I suspect it does stop companies from bothering to train those that enter the workforce with A-levels.

When I first started out, IT was a mix of a grads, A levels and even YTS. There wasn't a particular difference and everyone had just as much chance to make it to the top. I guess it's a lot easier to employ from abroad rather than invest in training.
 
People will have to wash their own car and go to Dominos to collect their pizza. Terrible prospect but might ease the burden on the NHS as people get fitter.
 
British citizen works abroad, say military as an example, and has a foreign wife.
Retires and returns to the UK, with excellent pension say £30,000 per annum. Seems his wife would be denied entry with these new rules.
 
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