Chopped wife into 224 pieces

Sorry to be an asre here - but, how can you be so sure?

I think this thread demonstrates people have different views.

It’s prob best that none of us assume people think like us - helps us to be more curious.
We all have our own opinions finny and that's all good 👍
The death penalty doesn't solve anything, it just satiates societies blood lust and need for revenge, it has zero deterrent effect in reducing crime and reduces us as a society to the level of the killer.

You talk about it in the circumstances of this particular crime as if this is an unusual incident, however a male killing his female partner is the one of the most common murders in history, its always happened.
I think there's a general misunderstanding of a lot of laws in this country and politicians and the media don't do a very good job of understanding it themselves, never mind explaining it to the general public.

I don't think A_p believes that this guy will only serve 19 years. For adults (adult at the time of offending), life sentences can start with minimum of 15 years minimum, for juveniles it's 12 years.

There are very specific guidelines that have to be put into place when we put laws into statute so your 'exceptional case' argument is intellectually and emotionally immature. That's not how laws work.

I think you need to understand that even if we had the death penalty, this guy probably wouldn't 'qualify' for it. For those who are absolutely (as in legally been sentenced to be) spending the rest of their lives in prison, there are only 60-70 of them in England and Wales.

A lot of others will never be released for various reasons, but that's why we have parole boards.
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When do people get locked up for punishment and when when is it rehabilitation ?
Crimes like this their should never get out .

There's very little if any "rehabilitation". Even support on probation is stretched beyond its limits. Grayling ****** it up when trying to privatise the service, which was a total disaster.

* Just to broaden out the discussion, here are some interesting stats concerning reoffending rates and also an extract about rehabilitation and avoidance of criminalisation of child offenders in the Criminal Justice System.


The overall proven reoffending rate was 24.3% for the January to March 2021 offender cohort.This represents a decrease of 0.4 percentage points from the same quarter in 2020 but an increase of 1.2 percentage points over the last quarter. Over time, the overall proven reoffending rate has fluctuated between 23.1% and 31.8%.
Adult offenders had a proven reoffending rate of 24.0%.This is a decrease of 0.2 percentage points since the same quarter in 2020 but an increase of 1.2 percentage points over last quarter.
Juvenile offenders had a proven reoffending rate of 31.1%.The juvenile reoffending rate decreased by 3.0 percentage points from the same quarter in the previous year but increased by 1.9 percentage points over last quarter.
Adults released from custody or starting court orders had a proven reoffending rate of 30.9%.This represents a 0.9 percentage point decrease since the same quarter last year but an increase of 1.3 percentage points over last quarter.
Adults released from custodial sentences of less than 12 months had a proven reoffending rate of 53.9%.This is a decrease of 3.6 percentage points from the same quarter in the previous year. Those released from sentences of less than or equal to 6 months had a proven reoffending rate of 57.0%, which is a decrease of 2.2 percentage points since the same quarter in the previous year.


* I decided to insert these conclusions because when we talk about "offenders" and "re-offenders" in terms of sentencing and rehabilitation its easy to over-look minors and young offenders, who comprise a sizeable proportion of those in the Criminal Justice System at any one time.

Supporting the youngest children in the youth justice system: what works to reduce offending and improve outcomes?

Published by the Local Government Association.
25th April 2022.

[Extract - "Conclusions"]
The authors of this report therefore recommend:

  • Raising the age of criminal responsibility to 14 and transferring responsibility for children aged 10–13 years who cause harm from youth justice to children’s social care.
  • Expand access to systemic therapies, cognitive or behavioural therapies for younger children whose behaviour causes harm.
  • Build a system that recognises and responds to the impact of Adverse Childhood Experiences and Trauma on child behaviour. This is likely to mean providing training for professionals across sectors (including the police). It may also mean introducing earlier assessments to identify children likely to need more intensive support.
  • Avoid using cautions, court orders, or convictions as necessary qualifiers for intensive intervention (for example from mental health teams). This is not appropriate for a criminal justice response to be required before young children receive the support they need. Needs should be assessed, and high-quality intervention considered at the earliest signs of aggressive, antisocial or disruptive behaviour.
  • Where used, police-led diversion should occur pre-arrest, to avoid unnecessary criminalisation. Diversion should be embedded within a strategy which seeks to reduce punitive contacts with the police, and supports the police to link children to other supporting services (e.g. referrals to CAMHS [Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services], domestic violence services, referrals to local youth activities).
  • Take a youth-led approach to design and/or selection of activities and interventions. Evidence from practice suggests this will increase uptake and avoid wasting resources on unpopular programmes.
  • Neither area-based curfews, nor schemes which bring younger children into contact with older children with more entrenched offending, should be used. Neither are supported by the evidence and are unlikely to be a good use of resources.
  • Develop a culture of cooperation and support within linked Youth Offending services. In case studies, participants reported this facilitated programme success regardless of the approach taken. Good relationships between services improved the experiences of professionals, families and children.



The youth justice system in England and Wales works to prevent offending and reoffending by children. The youth justice system is different to the adult system and is structured to address the needs of children. This publication looks at the youth justice system in England and Wales for the year ending March 2022. It considers the number of children (those aged 10 to 17) in the system, the offences they committed, the outcomes they received, their demographics and the trends over time.
Main Points:

13,800 children were cautioned or sentencedThe number of children who received a caution or sentence has fallen by 13% in the last year with a 79% fall over the last ten years.
8,000 first time entrants to the youth justice systemThe number of first time entrants has fallen by 10% since the previous year, with a 78% fall from the year ending March 2012.
3,500 knife and offensive weapon offences were committed by childrenThere was a 2% decrease in these offences compared with the previous year. Levels are 3% lower than those seen in the year ending March 2012.
Almost three quarters of children remanded to custody received a non-custodial outcome=Of those remanded in custody who received a non-custodial sentence, just under half were acquitted or had their case dismissed, while just over half received a non-custodial sentence.
The average time from offence to completion at court remained highThe average time from offence to completion was 217 days, down slightly from 221 days in the previous year but well above pre-pandemic levels. It was 121% higher (or 119 days longer) than the year ending March 2012.
The average custodial sentence length increased by six monthsThe average custodial sentence length increased by six months compared with the previous year to 22.8 months. This increase may have been due to a small number of cases which impacted on the overall average.
The number of children held in custody has fallen
There was an average of around 450 children in custody at any one time during the year. This is a fall of 19% fall against the previous year and a 77% fall against the year ending March 2012.
All custodial Behaviour Management measures saw increases in ratesCompared with the previous year, rates of separation increased by 56%, assaults by 25%, self harm by 29% and Restrictive Physical Interventions by 17%. The rises are likely due to a return to normal regimes compared with the previous year during periods of COVID-19 restrictions.
31.2% of children and young people reoffendedThe reoffending rate decreased by three percentage points in the last year and is the lowest on record, but is likely to have been impacted by periods of restrictions during the first year of the COVID-19 pandemic.
Also I certainly ain't disagreeing with alot of these comments but what I'm saying is in extreme cases like this where there is no unreasonable doubt that he committed this hideous crime, this is where the death penalty should be used, that's my opinion.
What is gained from administering the death penalty in your opinion? It has been proven not to act as a deterrent, it doesn't bring people back, it has a long documented negative impact on those administering the punishment and it would put us in line with some of the worst regimes on the planet
I read quite a few years ago, so the details are blurred, but Norway, I think, have weekday prisons where the prisoners stay in prison Monday-Friday and get the weekends at home. During the week they stay in private rooms and have jobs outside the prison.

Their re-offending is the smallest in europe, because, they say, they don't institutionalise their prison population.

I am sure they have slightly different conditions for dangerous prisoners.
It's worth noting that the last 14 years have been occupied by the Hang-em, Birch-Em, Flog-Em brigade, with talk about getting "tough" on crime.
All they've done is screwed the Prison Service and previous support organisations, charities and statutory organisations previously open to ex-offenders.

Diversion projects [thinking particularly about minors in the CJT] have all but vanished. Those professionals who remain, plugging away and trying their best to deter offending and re-offending, have my utmost respect and admiration.

This "Government" has prioritised protecting fraudsters, bankers and privatising vital public services.

It's our fault [not theirs] that there are no longer any resources to provide us all with a decent standard of living, lift children out of poverty, reduce inequality and reduce the level of offending! :mad:(n)