Champions League Final Matchday Thread

Cardiffdaffs

Well-known member
He was in an offside position.

Whether he is offside in terms of a free-kick being awarded depends entirely on how the ball got to him.

If it's played by a team-mate he's offside.

If it's deliberately played by a defender he isn't.

Deliberate (by the interpretations given to referees) doesn't include deflections.

The ball was played away from Benzema by a Liverpool player (Konaté?) and then hits the thigh of Fabinho and bounces back towards Benzema (who is in an offside position).

Fabinho did not make any attempt to play the ball with his thigh. It hit him accidentally. Benzema is offside.
We agree to disagree. The final ball played was deliberate in mine and many others opinions so “onside”. It doesn’t really matter now as the result wasn’t affected.
 

Cogeur_le_Conq

Well-known member
Did Fabinho intend to play the ball? Yes

Did he play the ball towards Benzema? Yes

Did he deliberately play it off his thigh? No

The one you missed out is the one that matters


Did he play the ball towards Benzema? Yes - so onside

Did he deliberately play it off his thigh? No - still onside
 

Scrote

Well-known member
We agree to disagree. The final ball played was deliberate in mine and many others opinions so “onside”. It doesn’t really matter now as the result wasn’t affected.
But your opinion counts for nothing. It's wrong. Factually.

Now you know that it's wrong the sensible thing to do is change your opinion. It's odd that you won't.

The rules are relatively clear considering how often football manages to complicate things.

Deliberate has a meaning. You can't arbitrarily redefine it and then say you're correct with your definition when that contradicts the defintion as laid out in the rules. It's madness.


Did he play the ball towards Benzema? Yes - so onside

Did he deliberately play it off his thigh? No - still onside
As above. If you want to re-write the rules in your head and declare reality null and void, then be my guest.
 

Loop

Member
Called it & I was glad to see Liverpool get beat. I thought their fans were pathetic booing the National Anthem previously. A decent game in the end though, some end to end football & Courtois was brilliant. I wasn't fond of the singing beforehand though, the yanks can keep that.
 

Liamo

Well-known member
And Benzima wasn't even ahead of the last outfield player but because he was ahead of the GK he is offside. Who makes up these rules.
The IFAB sets the laws of the game (if that matters). But in any event, the law doesn't say closer to the goal line than the last outfield player, it says closer than the second last opponent.

The law has never considered the goalkeeper differently than the other opponents in terms of offside, ever since the very first set of laws were issued in 1863. Throughout the entire history of the game, it's always, always been based on the number of opponents, irrespective of whether they're the goalkeeper or not.

And of course, who the second last opponent is, varies according to the relative positions of the defenders.
 

Zoophonic

Well-known member
But your opinion counts for nothing. It's wrong. Factually.

Now you know that it's wrong the sensible thing to do is change your opinion. It's odd that you won't.

The rules are relatively clear considering how often football manages to complicate things.

Deliberate has a meaning. You can't arbitrarily redefine it and then say you're correct with your definition when that contradicts the defintion as laid out in the rules. It's madness.



As above. If you want to re-write the rules in your head and declare reality null and void, then be my guest.
You seem weirdly invested in proving you ar right from your comments. Simply accept that people can disagree and you have one opinion and others have another. My humble opinion it was onside. Stating that the ball coming off the thigh accidentally seems to be your clincher but for me it was part of the action of the tackle coming in which was deliberate and therefore likely that that could happen. It’s not black And white.

 
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Liamo

Well-known member
Ok disallowed because it wasn't a deliberate pass to benzema from a Liverpool player. Why would it ever be a deliberate pass to an opposition player the rule or interpretation is absolute tosh.
That's a mischaracterisation of what the law says. The law doesn't talk about a deliberate pass by an opponent, it talks about the ball being deliberately played by an opponent. If the ball was deliberately played by Konaté (which it was, IMHO) Benzema cannot be guilty of an offside offence. Whether Konaté intended it to go to Benzema or not, doesn't matter in the slightest.
 

Laughing

Well-known member
Liverpool were unlucky in as much as courtiers had a once a season performance.

The disallowed goal was onside by the rules of the game.
 

Cuthbert

Well-known member
I think Liverpool have been the better team, but this defeat is making the bizarre decision to give Klopp Premier League Manager of the Season look even weirder.

It was blatantly done because of the cup results, and they've blown the biggest one whilst slipping up in the league.
A bit like Luton's manager getting Championship manager of the season!!
 

Liamo

Well-known member
Fabinho didn't attempt to play the ball with his knee. It wasn't deliberate. Benzema is offside. Clearly.
It isn't the touch by Fabinho that really matters here though, it's the touch by Konaté. Unless you think the touch on the ball by Konaté was a rebound or deflection (I don't, it clearly looks like a deliberate play to me) then Benzema can't be guilty of an offside offence.

The law says that, "A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, [...] is not considered to have gained an advantage" (i.e. is not guilty of an offside offence).

For me, Benzema receives the ball from a deliberate play by Konaté (via a rebound off Fabinho which is irrelevant in law) therefore there's no offside offence there.
 

Liamo

Well-known member
The ball was played away from Benzema by a Liverpool player (Konaté?) and then hits the thigh of Fabinho and bounces back towards Benzema (who is in an offside position).

Fabinho did not make any attempt to play the ball with his thigh. It hit him accidentally. Benzema is offside.
Actually you've just explained there why it's not offside - it's because of the deliberate play of the ball by Konaté.

For a player to be guilty of an offside offence, they have to be in an offside position when the ball was last played by a team mate (which Benzema was) and they must then become involved in active play (again, Benzema did) but the law also says the ball mustn't have been deliberate played by an opponent in between times.

You're right that a deflection/rebound off Fabinho is essentially irrelevant here, but the deliberate play of the ball by Konaté is not irrelevant - on the contrary, it's the decisive factor.

The only way this is an offside offence is if the touch by Konaté is also a deflection or rebound (which is an argument I've seen made) - however for me that's not the case.
 

chickenrunner

Well-known member
In the end Liverpool season turns out to be average. They needed penalties to win both cups as well

Where is the thread calling klopp a fraud? (Tongue in cheek, klopp is clearly a great manager)
I'm sure there would be one but his name doesn't lend itself to a catchy bastardisation as in Guardiola to Fraudiola.🙂
 

1finny

Well-known member
In the end Liverpool season turns out to be average. They needed penalties to win both cups as well

Where is the thread calling klopp a fraud? (Tongue in cheek, klopp is clearly a great manager)
That’s harsh
Their goal this season was clearly the big 2 - The Carabau Cup and FA Cup.

worth noting they didn’t beat any of the top 4 in the league all season either
 

Glover_elbow

Well-known member
In the end Liverpool season turns out to be average. They needed penalties to win both cups as well

Where is the thread calling klopp a fraud? (Tongue in cheek, klopp is clearly a great manager)
We wil see how great he is next season when potentially he needs lots of changes. they look formidable at centre back however with Mane probably gone, Salah drop in form at the end of the season Henderson on the decline he needs to freshen it up. Personally I think he needs a variation in tactics from the Gegenpressing. At the highest level teams like Man city and Real with players like modric kroos and Casemiro can play round the press a bit like chelsea picked us off in the cup with our high press. Ancellotti knew what to expect last night survive the early onslaught albeit great keeping was needed and pick them off when they push forward.
 
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